Any true humbucking J pickups around?

[ruju]

What's your attraction to "true humbucking"? As long as they're quiet and sound good, what's the difference? I have a coupla basses loaded with DiMarzio Area J pickups and think they work great. They have a fairly authentic old school single coil like Jazz sound, are quiet, have excellent string to string balance (with their raised A and D pole pieces) and are quite reasonably priced. I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on underneath the pickup covers and don't really care ... they've got it where it counts as far as my needs ... check'm out.

This makes perfect sense to me

 

[Jazz Ad]

All kinds of humbuckers exist within a J form factor : split coil, stacked, side by side, quad coil

 

[TuneSalad666]

I think that what the OP wants us to find for him is a pair of standard J-Bass sized pickups with two coils placed side-by-side and not end-to-end or one atop the other that sound like big and wide MM-style humbuckers with an extended top end and none of the muddiness inherent to most side-by-side coil (PAF-like) pickup designs.
I have not seen or heard of such a pickup, and the reason might be that such a beast is either physically or electrically not feasible. Or it could be that there is no market for such a thing.
I think it is possible that OP is attempting to turn his Jazz bass into something that sounds like an Entwistle Buzzard, but without making any routing mods.
Seriously, nobody here is attacking you. We want to be friends. We want to help. It looks to me as if we either don't have an answer that meets your satisfaction, the device which you seek does not exist, or possibly both.

You got it.

I don't buy your claim that everyone here wants to be my friend though, it would be counter intuitive to my general experience with people, especially based on how they react on the internet, and it would be counter logical too based on some of the responses I got on this very thread.

Thanks for doing an attempt to make me feel welcome though

I have read the entire thread. I don't consider the Barts typical humbuckers. Rather they are an extreme example of the characteristics that humbuckers exhibit. They meet your requirement for rich and full, but in doing so have limited high frequency output.

If single coil and humbuckers exist at opposite ends of a tonal spectrum. Thick and full would be at one end of the spectrum with humbackers. Thin and bright would be at the opposite in of the spectrum with single coils. There are many possibilities between the extremes with more balanced frequency response. In the middle you might have a single coil and humbucker that sound almost exactly the same. One would be noiseless and the other would pick up hum from electromagnet emanations.

Perhaps, understanding of some electronics/physics can help you understand.

Basically as you add windings to a coil it becomes more inductive. The increased inductance emphasizes low frequency response and limits high frequency response. Inductors in series add (L1 + L2 = L total). So putting two pickup windings in series will increase their voltage output, increase lows, and limit highs. Equal inductors in parallel result in half the inductance value (L/2). When parallel inductors have disimilar values use the following formula.
View attachment 2937306


Connecting two pickup coils in parallel will reduce lows, extend highs, and reduce voltage output in comparison to the series arrangement.

There are other design factors that influence the frequency response as well.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.

I actually already knew how number of coil wraps and serial/parallel connections generally influence the tone and output of pickups.

Still appreciate you took time to explain it in details.

The Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker neck pickup seems to be strange that way though.

Even if the tone chart on the Saymour Duncan homepage for the pickup shows a pretty moderate output, it's tonal profile still seems odd, knowing that it is actually a humbucker, as it has a relatively high treble response but a fairly low response on the mids and lows: Rickenbacker Humbucker

As I said my own experience using it as neck pickup, though not in a Rickenbacker, is that it had a very articulate and clear, yet somewhat crisp, piano like tone, even with a faint bell like character to it, if that makes sense.

But despite the tone chart displays fairly low bass and mid response I personally found that it was not exactly lacking bass, neither did it seem shrilling from a lot of high frequency content, and actually I would describe it as producing a quite balanced tone.

Well, as you can see I really loved the sound that pickup gave me, unfortunately I was stupid enough to sell the bass.

So I guess I would be going for something with approximately the same character, judging soly from the tone charts on the Seymour Duncan homepage though no P or J pickup seems to get even close, and the only pickup I found that seems to come close is a single coil P pickup, the SCPB-2: Hot Single Coil P-Bass

But I guess that even if it does match pretty closely, there is no guarantee as a 3 band graphical representation of a tone chart kind of leaves a lot to wish for in terms of representing actual sound.

At least if I would be able to achieve what I want with the SCPB-2 it would be less of a drastic surgery installing than a lot of the other non J or P pickup options.

Edit!: Took a closer look and actually, although not exactly as close as the SCPB-2, some of the active P and J pickups come close, as well as the ANTIQUITY II P pickup: Antiquity II P-Bass, which is a passive pickup.

Again still hard to judge soly from the tone chart, but i guess it would be worth a shot.

 

[Maynjo]

I would recommend the Nordstrand nj4se. It is still a split humbucker jazz pickup, but it's made to not sound like a typical jazz pickup.

This video may convince you.




Edit: oh, and stainless steel strings. I prefer Dean markley blue steels.

 

[Wasnex]

I actually already knew how number of coil wraps and serial/parallel connections generally influence the tone and output of pickups.

The Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker neck pickup seems to be strange that way though.

Even if the tone chart on the Saymour Duncan homepage for the pickup shows a pretty moderate output, it's tonal profile still seems odd, knowing that it is actually a humbucker, as it has a relatively high treble response but a fairly low response on the mids and lows: Rickenbacker Humbucker

As I said my own experience using it as neck pickup, though not in a Rickenbacker, is that it had a very articulate and clear, yet somewhat crisp, piano like tone, even with a faint bell like character if that makes sense.

I don't find your observations unusual at all. The pickup is voiced to be slightly warmer than a stock Ric pickup so you would expect it to be relatively bright. It is possible to make single coils and humbuckers with very similar voicings. It's also possible to produce dark sounding single coils and extremely bright/thin sounding humbuckers. This is not the typical approach, but it is possible. This is why I recommenced letting go of expectations regarding the different pickup architectures and trying to identify a noiseless design the meets your performance goals.

Another important consideration to keep in mind is how the sound changes as the position of the pickup is moved. Getting a pickup in the J-bass bridge position to sound like the Seymour Duncan in the neck position is unlikely, even if you routed the bass and dropped the Seymour Duncan into the bridge position.

 

[stringthrough]

Check out Nordstradt’s offerings. They (he) seem to always get it right.

 

[stringthrough]

I would recommend the Nordstrand nj4se. It is still a split humbucker jazz pickup, but it's made to not sound like a typical jazz pickup.

This video may convince you.




Edit: oh, and stainless steel strings. I prefer Dean markley blue steels.

They sound great but who is this killer bassist?

 

[mcnach]

They sound great but who is this killer bassist?

Remco Hendriks. He seems to be associated with Hammersmith basses lately... Awesome player.

 

[bucephylus]

I was wondering if anyone makes humbucker J pickups, and not just hum canceling split coils, a bit like the humbucker guitar strat pickups using two blades in a single coil enclosure?

Edit!!: Since there seem to be some confusion about what I mean with true humbuckers: By true humbuckers I actually mean traditional humbuckers, as in pickups that uses two coils run in serial connection under two parallel rows of polepieces or rails.

I get what you are asking. But, as you see, there aren’t many, if any, J pickups that have the design layout you are describing. The reason is simply that the physical space is a bit too restrictive. One thought is for you to call the folks at the Nordstrand shop and talk to them. They are great folks and bend over backwards to make what players want. They will give you the skinny regarding your question, in terms of whether or not it is even possible.

Meanwhile, the other designs, which I understand you are specifically not asking about, actually do perform quite well along the lines of your performance description. I’ve gone to using the Delano JMVC pickups with the Sadowsky preamp as a standard package; and that package pretty much does exactly what you are describing. FWIW. Delano also has some very nice PJ sets. You can hear them in the Sandberg Bass vids on YouTube.

 

[pglaser01]

Didn’t anyone actually ask if you had a budget in mind for what you were either specifically looking for, or interested in researching based on responses???

 

[Jeff Elkins]

Remco Hendriks. He seems to be associated with Hammersmith basses lately... Awesome player.

@wintremute posted a great video of him over in the winter NAMM thread.

 

[xnewyorka]

I didn't read the entire thread, but you are looking for piano like tone, and the tone actually starts with the strings and how you are attacking them. So what strings did you achieve this tone with before, and are you using those same strings now? And is your attack position and technique identical to what it was before? Guessing that one is a yes, but still have to ask. Also, what cabinet are you using, and also your tone control settings have a lot to do with it. For example, backing off the bass a little bit actually will give more piano like ring to the lower notes.

 

[micguy]

Joe Barden makes what the OP is asking for physically (side by side humbuckers) but if what you really want is piano clarity and definition, you don’t want side by side humbuckers. Clarity comes from a narrow aparture - split coils do that better than side by sides - I have both and side by sides are in the wrong direction for your tonal goals. I’d suggest Dimarzio Area J’s for your sonic goals.

 

[Antisyzygy]

I was wondering if anyone makes humbucker J pickups, and not just hum canceling split coils, a bit like the humbucker guitar strat pickups using two blades in a single coil enclosure?

Edit!!: Since there seem to be some confusion about what I mean with true humbuckers: By true humbuckers I actually mean traditional humbuckers, as in pickups that uses two coils run in serial connection under two parallel rows of polepieces or rails.

Lace alumitones I think are humbuckers. They make a set for jazz basses.

There are jazz rail pickups like this as well.

 

[mbene085]

The Bardens deserve consideration. I haven't used the J bass ones, but I have a set of their guitar pickups and boy are they ever clear, with more bass and more treble than traditional humbuckers.

Also, I've seen two people suggest this, but no response from the OP - the "plain" EMG J set pickups use ceramic magnets and steel polepieces. It's hidden under a solid cover, but the humbucking design and use of steel blade polepieces suggests to me that it probably looks like a Hot Rails under there. And the EMG J set definitely has the piano-like high end and a strong low end. They're VERY different from the split coil Geezer set he has currently installed.

 

[Maynjo]

I get what you are asking. But, as you see, there aren’t many, if any, J pickups that have the design layout you are describing. The reason is simply that the physical space is a bit too restrictive. One thought is for you to call the folks at the Nordstrand shop and talk to them. They are great folks and bend over backwards to make what players want. They will give you the skinny regarding your question, in terms of whether or not it is even possible.

Meanwhile, the other designs, which I understand you are specifically not asking about, actually do perform quite well along the lines of your performance description. I’ve gone to using the Delano JMVC pickups with the Sadowsky preamp as a standard package; and that package pretty much does exactly what you are describing. FWIW. Delano also has some very nice PJ sets. You can hear them in the Sandberg Bass vids on YouTube.
View attachment 2937456
View attachment 2937457

Totally forgot about the Delano's those are another good option.

 

[JoeDeF]

[edited out incorrect info]

Everyone thinks about and talks about tone differently; "piano-like" to me calls to mind a chimey single-coil tone. If I wanted that, I'd get a split humbucker. But since you hear differently and speak about tone differently, you've made it pretty clear that that's not what you want.

I wouldn't call myself an expert on pickups by any means, but the distance between the rows in a humbucker has a great influence on the tone; as the rows get farther apart (say, MM, or even series neck and bridge p-ups), the tone gets thicker but loses high end focus or clarity (that's how I hear it anyway; as I said, everyone hears/talks differently).

What's happening (my understanding) is that different placements of the rows pick up ("hear) different mixes of partials (overtones), and possibly different phases for the partials (I haven't really studied that, though); when they are combined, some of those partials sum together while others cancel. "Tone" is largely the relative amplitude of the various partials.

So, even if you could get eight tiny polepieces and two sets of windings into a J-sized p-up, the closeness of the two rows would make a different tone than a wider humbucker, due to different partial summing and cancellation.

 

[AndyPanda]

I stopped reading after the first page and a half -- so maybe this has already been discussed. Joe Barden jazz pickups are side by side coils parallel blades and you can choose to wire them series or parallel. I think it meets all your requirements. But they are extremely modern sounding pickups and aren't going to sound like a vintage single coil jazz pickup. I like them. There are no covers for them - they are meant to be installed exposed like this:

 

[DavC]

Yes = Splits , Stacks , Duals ... = quiet ... but , .. they each have their own tone

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Wasnex is right ... two single coils j pickups in parallel may have the brightness you look for but this requires routing ... why don’t you call the guys at Seymour Duncan since you like the sound of one of their pickup? I believe that their custom shop may wind for you a pickup with the sought tonal characteristics which can be installed inside a j bass pickup cover ... the guys there are extremely competent and willing to assist.

Note:

I knew that you wanted something in particular or you had something particular in mind which you didn’t know was existing or not ... then why mounting all this drama, which ultimately demonstrated that what you look for does not even exist? You could simply start by saying “Guys, there’s this particular pickup that I like the tone of ... do you know whether somebody makes a similar one which can be placed inside a J bass pickup cover?” .. much simpler, clearer and effective approach IMO.

Cheers.