I'm trying to avoid buying bass head, because I have two beautiful and powerful QSC power amps. This BBE pre-amp seems like the answer, and it's reasonably cheap. Problem is I can't find one to try out anywhere. I want to power a 4x10 cabinet.
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Anybody tried a BBE BMax pre-amp
- Thread starter Mr. Chuffey
- Start date
Its really really REALLY good, IMHO. They're popular for live sound, while the Sansamp RBI is popular for recording. Try using the search though, I just read some threads on the BBE vs Sansamp. Really helpful reading.
I tried one when they first came out and liked it a lot. As I recall, very clear and "present" sounding. Didn't mess with the EQ, I was actually trying out a bass and the bass sounded awesome with everything set "flat."
There is so much info here on TB on these it will make your eyes bleed! I owned a solid state one for about a eyar and tried really hard to like it but there were some issues with mine.
Pros: The compressor was very subtle but nice.
The build quality felt really nice
BBE customer service was fantastic
Price of the unit new was very reasonable
Overall tone was very clean and punchy
Cons: The preamp has a naturally "scooped tone" as the tone stack is based on a fender bassman design. The para mids control would cut only so it had to be dimed to get a flat tone. Therefore it was pretty much impossible to get a growly mid tone from this preamp.
The BBE circuit only enhances the mid scoop. This topic has been beaten to death but there are two controls on the BBE circuit that are essentially bass and treble controls. Turn them up from off and you get more scoop.
My unit, like many others had this really noticeable crackling sound as notes trailed off. It sounded like static or clipping and nothing could get rid of it. I sent the unit in to the factory and they performed a mod to the front end to reduce gain but it didn't help. That was the final straw for me as the unit was unuseable for recroding with this noise issue. Others here on TB have had the same issue both with BMAX units and some of their pedals.
The input stage had no clip lights and was way too sensitive. The input volume could barely be turned up and an active bass would clip the crap out of it. This was later repaired at the fatocry for me as mentioned but the lack of clip indicators was very frustrating.
Hope that helps. The BMAX had serious potential. But as I came to really not like the BBE circuit's scooped tone, and wanted an amp that would growl, this one ws not for me.
I now have an Eden Navigator preamp and it is everything that the BBE wasn't. Clean, growly, punchy with all the mid control you could ever want.
I also have a Genz Benz Shuttle which is very similar to the Eden in terms of growly tone.
If you can find one used for a good price, the BMax may still be worth trying out but I would try it with your gear first if at all possible.
Pros: The compressor was very subtle but nice.
The build quality felt really nice
BBE customer service was fantastic
Price of the unit new was very reasonable
Overall tone was very clean and punchy
Cons: The preamp has a naturally "scooped tone" as the tone stack is based on a fender bassman design. The para mids control would cut only so it had to be dimed to get a flat tone. Therefore it was pretty much impossible to get a growly mid tone from this preamp.
The BBE circuit only enhances the mid scoop. This topic has been beaten to death but there are two controls on the BBE circuit that are essentially bass and treble controls. Turn them up from off and you get more scoop.
My unit, like many others had this really noticeable crackling sound as notes trailed off. It sounded like static or clipping and nothing could get rid of it. I sent the unit in to the factory and they performed a mod to the front end to reduce gain but it didn't help. That was the final straw for me as the unit was unuseable for recroding with this noise issue. Others here on TB have had the same issue both with BMAX units and some of their pedals.
The input stage had no clip lights and was way too sensitive. The input volume could barely be turned up and an active bass would clip the crap out of it. This was later repaired at the fatocry for me as mentioned but the lack of clip indicators was very frustrating.
Hope that helps. The BMAX had serious potential. But as I came to really not like the BBE circuit's scooped tone, and wanted an amp that would growl, this one ws not for me.
I now have an Eden Navigator preamp and it is everything that the BBE wasn't. Clean, growly, punchy with all the mid control you could ever want.
I also have a Genz Benz Shuttle which is very similar to the Eden in terms of growly tone.
If you can find one used for a good price, the BMax may still be worth trying out but I would try it with your gear first if at all possible.
The information about the para-mids is inaccurate. The regualr EQ knob for mids is indeed cut only, so it does have to be dimes to be flat. However, the para-mids are 12 db cut/boost, so it can be dialed in. The maximizer does indeed act as a mid-scoop if cranked up, but ideally it shoudl be used sparingly - I don't really use it at all. As Crabby mentioned, BBE allows you send in old BMax preamps to reduce the input sensitivity if you so desire, but I didn't think it was really necessary - mine is way sensitive and I just turn it less
. The new ones should not have this problem.I have also not experienced any crackling or note distortion from this unit - mine is solid. Had it for 3 years and bought it used form GC, so it's been through some heavy use. I would recommend it if you're looking for a more hi-fi type of tone, which I dig. Obviously you can tweak EQ, but the inherent voicing is just more modern than vintage.
You can check out the manual here to see what does what: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I have the BMax solid state. Bought it new in late 06. Never heard or had a problem with the static sound. I've gigged with it a lot. I bought it originally because of the $/watts issue. I bought a used SWR SM900 and Goliath III 4x10 cab and the amp wasn't as loud as I thought it should be so I went with the QSC power amp and the BBE.
It's very interesting to read the comments about the scooped mids. I've really struggled with my sound being bottom heavy and thin in the higher strings. What little slap/pop I do do sounds like it totally drops out causing my technique to get way too heavy. I need to reread the manual as it seems there is some trick to pushing the mids.
The comment of it being a hi-fi sound is right on, but for the last 6 months or so it has been leaving me wanting. I bought little GK Backline 110 for my practice room and its tone has really got me hot for a different amp. The GK is a little more edgy than I think I want for my live rig so I'm looking at Genz Benz. I'm thinking/hoping that an amp with pre and power both designed for bass will also FEEL better.
The compressor is so subtle I can't tell it helps me at all and the sonic maximizer just seems to add more boominess. I don't use it.
Right now with the BBE I seem to be lacking edge, some warmth, and can't seem to control my eq easily. If you are looking for bang for the buck it is hard to beat. At the time I thought I needed to know I could go into any situation and have enough power, but stay in buget. The BBE helped me do that. Now I want to get closer to the tone in my head. But no one complains about my tone but me.
It's very interesting to read the comments about the scooped mids. I've really struggled with my sound being bottom heavy and thin in the higher strings. What little slap/pop I do do sounds like it totally drops out causing my technique to get way too heavy. I need to reread the manual as it seems there is some trick to pushing the mids.
The comment of it being a hi-fi sound is right on, but for the last 6 months or so it has been leaving me wanting. I bought little GK Backline 110 for my practice room and its tone has really got me hot for a different amp. The GK is a little more edgy than I think I want for my live rig so I'm looking at Genz Benz. I'm thinking/hoping that an amp with pre and power both designed for bass will also FEEL better.
The compressor is so subtle I can't tell it helps me at all and the sonic maximizer just seems to add more boominess. I don't use it.
Right now with the BBE I seem to be lacking edge, some warmth, and can't seem to control my eq easily. If you are looking for bang for the buck it is hard to beat. At the time I thought I needed to know I could go into any situation and have enough power, but stay in buget. The BBE helped me do that. Now I want to get closer to the tone in my head. But no one complains about my tone but me.
The trick to this preamp is understanding the controls. Flat is 0-10-0 on the passive EQ (not 2-10-2 as the manual states), with the semi-parametric mid at 12 o'clock and the Sonic Maximizer off. If you want a middy tone, use the active mid (and yes, it both cuts and boosts) and leave the passive controls at 0-10-0 with the Sonic Max off. The tone can get real boomy real quickly as you turn the bass up or turn the Sonic Max on. As for the compressor, I think it does a great job of subtly softening the peaks. It too can get weird though, if you crank it too much.
I've used mine for a few years and I'm still happy with it. I had a SansAmp RBI too, but it couldn't produce the pants-flapping low end punch that the BBE can, IMO.
I've used mine for a few years and I'm still happy with it. I had a SansAmp RBI too, but it couldn't produce the pants-flapping low end punch that the BBE can, IMO.
im the guy who specified the BMAX, and the BMAX-T, and produced it with BBE's chief engineer, who, by the way, is a well-known, well-respected tube and analog maven.
when we had the idea to resurrect the bass preamp idea, BBE had the ill-fated 383 some years earlier, i went on a quest to see what bass players loved sonically. two things were generally apparent, metal grungers aside (sorry guys), everyone wanted deep warm tones...tight, but warm and down in the 30Hz to 60 Hz range to match the fundamental of a kick drum, but, also, fast transient response and hard top end.
with respect to the deep and warm, almost universally bass players pointed me to Don Wickersham's Dual Showman-preamp-on-steroids inspired Alembic F2-B. i sought out players and friends that owned them and listened...what a mind-**** the low end of these things is. like nothing i'd ever heard before.
with respect to the fast, tight and hard, i had two friends using Glockenklang Soul-Os and even before this project i was amazed at the crystal clarity of these things. transient response so fast it could give you whiplash and a hard top that you could bounce a quarter off of.
with these two tonalities in my head i went back to Paul and said it has to have the depth of the Alembic and the attack of the Glock...and off we went.
the BMAX being the solid state version and the BMAX-T having an identical front-end as the Alembic/Dual-Showman, they are both fantastic but, as you can imagine, the solid-state version was more versatile and not as round-sounding as the T.
the T uses a top-grade Groove Tubes 12AX7 in a Groove Tubes supplied socket and is wired to the circuit board using solid silver, teflon-coated leads. it has a custom made toroidal transformer in it's power supply and Jensen's top DI transformer in it's direct out on the back (the same transformer used in Record Plant's, Radial's and BBE's Jensen transformer DI's).
the compressor in both is an optical compressor, known for their fast but relatively soft-knee response. actually, as you crank it up the threshold goes down and the ratio goes up. it gets pretty radical after about 2 o'clock.
the passive eq is flat at 2-10-2, at least that's what the Audio Precision told us...always use your ears though!
the solid-state version, for the price, IMHO is the best sounding preamp you can own for under $1500.00.
the front-ends of both were pretty sensitive in the beginning...we didn't consider the very hot output of some of the 18v active electronics basses, the 9v active G&L L-2000s were what we were using primarily to demo and voice these things (after all, BBE owns G&L and these were readily available).
funny though, our graphic artist friend is a bass player and he brought his '65 P-Bass around a couple of times and that thing just massacred the front-end, we sort of wrote it off as an anomaly at the the time cuz it sounded so good with the L-2000s and the SB-2s.
we mod'd the ones people had a problem with free of charge with 24 hour turn around and freight paid and made a running change after the first production to pad down the input.
the crackle was a production problem in part of one run...the supplier had not connected a ground lead...about 100 units went out this way. we, of course, fixed for free everyone we knew about. sorry if you got one, BBE will always fix this for you for free if you just call them and let them know.
that's it, everything you ever wanted to know about the BMAX and a few things you didn't give a **** about.
btw, the original working name for the BMAX was FREEBASS...they just wouldn't let me do it no matter how hard i pushed!!!
peace
when we had the idea to resurrect the bass preamp idea, BBE had the ill-fated 383 some years earlier, i went on a quest to see what bass players loved sonically. two things were generally apparent, metal grungers aside (sorry guys), everyone wanted deep warm tones...tight, but warm and down in the 30Hz to 60 Hz range to match the fundamental of a kick drum, but, also, fast transient response and hard top end.
with respect to the deep and warm, almost universally bass players pointed me to Don Wickersham's Dual Showman-preamp-on-steroids inspired Alembic F2-B. i sought out players and friends that owned them and listened...what a mind-**** the low end of these things is. like nothing i'd ever heard before.
with respect to the fast, tight and hard, i had two friends using Glockenklang Soul-Os and even before this project i was amazed at the crystal clarity of these things. transient response so fast it could give you whiplash and a hard top that you could bounce a quarter off of.
with these two tonalities in my head i went back to Paul and said it has to have the depth of the Alembic and the attack of the Glock...and off we went.
the BMAX being the solid state version and the BMAX-T having an identical front-end as the Alembic/Dual-Showman, they are both fantastic but, as you can imagine, the solid-state version was more versatile and not as round-sounding as the T.
the T uses a top-grade Groove Tubes 12AX7 in a Groove Tubes supplied socket and is wired to the circuit board using solid silver, teflon-coated leads. it has a custom made toroidal transformer in it's power supply and Jensen's top DI transformer in it's direct out on the back (the same transformer used in Record Plant's, Radial's and BBE's Jensen transformer DI's).
the compressor in both is an optical compressor, known for their fast but relatively soft-knee response. actually, as you crank it up the threshold goes down and the ratio goes up. it gets pretty radical after about 2 o'clock.
the passive eq is flat at 2-10-2, at least that's what the Audio Precision told us...always use your ears though!
the solid-state version, for the price, IMHO is the best sounding preamp you can own for under $1500.00.
the front-ends of both were pretty sensitive in the beginning...we didn't consider the very hot output of some of the 18v active electronics basses, the 9v active G&L L-2000s were what we were using primarily to demo and voice these things (after all, BBE owns G&L and these were readily available).
funny though, our graphic artist friend is a bass player and he brought his '65 P-Bass around a couple of times and that thing just massacred the front-end, we sort of wrote it off as an anomaly at the the time cuz it sounded so good with the L-2000s and the SB-2s.
we mod'd the ones people had a problem with free of charge with 24 hour turn around and freight paid and made a running change after the first production to pad down the input.
the crackle was a production problem in part of one run...the supplier had not connected a ground lead...about 100 units went out this way. we, of course, fixed for free everyone we knew about. sorry if you got one, BBE will always fix this for you for free if you just call them and let them know.
that's it, everything you ever wanted to know about the BMAX and a few things you didn't give a **** about.
btw, the original working name for the BMAX was FREEBASS...they just wouldn't let me do it no matter how hard i pushed!!!
peace
Judd-
Thanks for the fascinating insight into the development of the product. I actually ordered one earlier this week, based on the feedback on the forum, and I'm waiting for it to come on Monday. Sounds like I'm in for a treat.
Mr. Chuffey
Thanks for the fascinating insight into the development of the product. I actually ordered one earlier this week, based on the feedback on the forum, and I'm waiting for it to come on Monday. Sounds like I'm in for a treat.
Mr. Chuffey
my pleasure.
in the last ten years i have developed a number of products but i take special pride in the BMAX cuz i feel it's as close to perfect as i've gotten in a product design.
i hope you enjoy it.
in the last ten years i have developed a number of products but i take special pride in the BMAX cuz i feel it's as close to perfect as i've gotten in a product design.
i hope you enjoy it.
I wondered - I like mine ok. In fact, it seems a lot easier to use and has more features than the Yamaha PB-1. My all time favorite with biamp outputs though is probably the Ashly BP-41.
Again, thanks.
Again, thanks.
I didn't like it. I found the EQ to be waaaay too sensitive, and way too easy to make it either very boomy/dark if you're looking for a decent bass tone or simply lacking in low end. The sweet spot seems to be right around 2.21000567 on the Bass knob. That's how sensitive/extreme it seemed to me. Local I guy I loaned it too that was hoping to buy it had the same problem, and I wound up selling it elsewhere.
I guess this could be due to the hot input, and FWIW I was using passive basses.
Several emails I've sent to BBE were never replied to, which has kinda soured me on the brand, and their site is lacking - for example clicking on "more about the DI-1000" takes you to a page about crossovers. Minor thing, of course, but it's about making a good impression. So I'd give their customer service a thumbs-down too though it seems others here have had better luck.
Some big gaps in their thinking too, IMO. For example, their DI-1000 (which I own) is their best (it has a Jensen in it) but you can only have one Sonic Maximizer'd signal out via the DI. The 1/4" "through" output is pre-BBE, so you can't send your amp the same signal you send to the board. By contrast, the DI-100x which is cheaper (no Jensen) has a clean 1/4" out and an effected 1/4" out. I bought the "better" (more expensive) one not realizing it's missing such an obvious feature (which the cheaper one has), despite there being plenty of space inside for it and on the casing.
The B-MAX rack preamp has both DI and 1/4" effected outs, but no clean out. Huge oversight. Also no way to bypass the EQ which is what I had all my problems with (your tone practically changes if you breathe on it). Another huge oversight.
I really just wanted to use their famed flagship Sonic Maximizer product - to my amp and to the board - and have a good DI to boot, but their products ironically don't offer it. As I said, several queries went unanswered, such as a request to have my DI-1000 fixed ("modded", if you prefer) to include an effected 1/4" out like the lower model DI has.
I still keep the DI-1000 in case of emergencies and such, but never use it primarily due to this.
I thought the build of their stuff I've owned was excellent, and I dig the "Sonic Maximizer" despite being predisposed to not liking such things. I also though the compressor was very good, for that sort of thing.
I guess this could be due to the hot input, and FWIW I was using passive basses.
Several emails I've sent to BBE were never replied to, which has kinda soured me on the brand, and their site is lacking - for example clicking on "more about the DI-1000" takes you to a page about crossovers. Minor thing, of course, but it's about making a good impression. So I'd give their customer service a thumbs-down too though it seems others here have had better luck.
Some big gaps in their thinking too, IMO. For example, their DI-1000 (which I own) is their best (it has a Jensen in it) but you can only have one Sonic Maximizer'd signal out via the DI. The 1/4" "through" output is pre-BBE, so you can't send your amp the same signal you send to the board. By contrast, the DI-100x which is cheaper (no Jensen) has a clean 1/4" out and an effected 1/4" out. I bought the "better" (more expensive) one not realizing it's missing such an obvious feature (which the cheaper one has), despite there being plenty of space inside for it and on the casing.
The B-MAX rack preamp has both DI and 1/4" effected outs, but no clean out. Huge oversight. Also no way to bypass the EQ which is what I had all my problems with (your tone practically changes if you breathe on it). Another huge oversight.
I really just wanted to use their famed flagship Sonic Maximizer product - to my amp and to the board - and have a good DI to boot, but their products ironically don't offer it. As I said, several queries went unanswered, such as a request to have my DI-1000 fixed ("modded", if you prefer) to include an effected 1/4" out like the lower model DI has.
I still keep the DI-1000 in case of emergencies and such, but never use it primarily due to this.
I thought the build of their stuff I've owned was excellent, and I dig the "Sonic Maximizer" despite being predisposed to not liking such things. I also though the compressor was very good, for that sort of thing.
I had 2! But I really grew to hate my rack system. TOO HEAVY! Tried a Trace Elliot, then returned to my relatively 'light' Sunn. But the BBE sounded great. Just a bit too refined for my band.
of course, not everything works for everyone.
did the best i could. i thought it was pretty cool.
BBE's a funny company, as most family owned companies are. marketing isn't their strong suit. i tried desperately to build brand awareness and equity. but things like the lackluster website, and a redesign for it, were simply out of my scope of influence.
the DI1000 only has the one balanced output because the basic design didn't allow Paul to split the signal to an unbalanced output. i asked for it but was told it wasn't possible in that passive design.
"thru"s by definition are just throughputs, or parallels, of the adjoining jack...it's the same topology as every other DI made.
sorry if that made you crazy. we really meant the DI-1000 as a studio piece to compete with Avalon and some of the really high-end stuff. the thought was to offer really great sonic value for the dough. Avalon-level sonics for 1/3 the price, in a chassis built like a tank.
anyway, as always in product development, you try to do your due diligence in market research but still can't satisfy everyone.
thanks for the comments though.
did the best i could. i thought it was pretty cool.
BBE's a funny company, as most family owned companies are. marketing isn't their strong suit. i tried desperately to build brand awareness and equity. but things like the lackluster website, and a redesign for it, were simply out of my scope of influence.
the DI1000 only has the one balanced output because the basic design didn't allow Paul to split the signal to an unbalanced output. i asked for it but was told it wasn't possible in that passive design.
"thru"s by definition are just throughputs, or parallels, of the adjoining jack...it's the same topology as every other DI made.
sorry if that made you crazy. we really meant the DI-1000 as a studio piece to compete with Avalon and some of the really high-end stuff. the thought was to offer really great sonic value for the dough. Avalon-level sonics for 1/3 the price, in a chassis built like a tank.
anyway, as always in product development, you try to do your due diligence in market research but still can't satisfy everyone.
thanks for the comments though.
Thanks for your post. The reason I said 0-10-0 is flat is because that's what Paul Gagon told me in an e-mail.
LOL! ok...fair enough.
that's the conventional wisdom for that dual showman passive eq, which Paul is intimate with having been a Fender engineer.
when we put it on the AP we saw 2-10-2 which is why it's in the manual that way.
Paul's a brilliant guy, one of the best analog audio engineers i have ever worked with.
that's the conventional wisdom for that dual showman passive eq, which Paul is intimate with having been a Fender engineer.
when we put it on the AP we saw 2-10-2 which is why it's in the manual that way.
Paul's a brilliant guy, one of the best analog audio engineers i have ever worked with.
