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Anyone else disappointed w/ eden wtx264?

Adam Johnson

Adam Johnson

May 31, 2014
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#1
My eden has no umph. Great tone, but no volume or umph behind it. I run it into an eden 410, the cab with the " whizzer" cone speakers in it... 260 watts at 4 ohms and it barely holds up in coffee shop gigs and little outdoor patio gigs. I play in a four piece, with no drummer, just a percussionist on cajon and stuff. Now, I take out an old bxr 300 amp, plug that thing into the same cab and the walls will cave in. Why is this eden so dang whimpy?
 
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#3
I have the older version, the WTX-260, and while it's not loud, I've been impressed with what it can do. I actually deployed it as a back up, into a 212, when my Mesa M2000 died at a gig. A fairly loud gig with a drummer. The Eden held up! I had the master almost fully cranked up, but it held up and got me through that gig, with no signs of amp strain.

I would think with a 410 it should handle a cajon player no problem. The real culprit may be that 410, whizzer cones are not efficient, maybe getting a more efficient cabinet is the way to go? Or just use the amp you know can handle that gig with that cabinet.
 
#4
HolmeBass said:
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The real culprit may be that 410, whizzer cones are not efficient, maybe getting a more efficient cabinet is the way to go? Or just use the amp you know can handle that gig with that cabinet.
Click to expand...

"Now, I take out an old bxr 300 amp, plug that thing into the same cab and the walls will cave in."

It's not the cab!
 
#6
I just hate that there is no head room, with gain set so that the pre doesn't clip, master can only go about 50% up. Anything beyond that just distorts and doesn't get louder.. Up to that point though, it sounds so good. I wonder if a wtx500 would be that much of a difference...
 
#7
Adam Johnson said:
I just hate that there is no head room, with gain set so that the pre doesn't clip, master can only go about 50% up. Anything beyond that just distorts and doesn't get louder.. Up to that point though, it sounds so good. I wonder if a wtx500 would be that much of a difference...
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I've tried a Kustom KXB500 with a Eden EX115 and it sounds killer!! A buddy of mine is looking at using the KXB500 with the same cab you have based on what he heard with my EX115.
 
#9
Maybe a gain stage issue? I don't know about the wtx pre, but on my old Nemesis combo - which has a simplified version of the eden pre, the manual explicitly says that you can/should turn the pre up until it clips.

Correction: Until the clip light comes on, not until it distorts.
 
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#10
I have the WTX260, same pre and power sections. With the gain set as high as possible (preamp clipping sounds nasty/fizzy) and the master as high as possible (power amp clipping sounds bad too), I've carried an outdoor big band gig using two of Eden's loud 112XLTs. There was very little bass in the PA for a soccer-field size grassy area and a few hundred people in the audience. So with loud cabs, it will get you by. But I agree it lacks cohones. It seems about as powerful as my 100 watt tube amp or 120 watt Workingman's combo. It is what it is. Many other micro amps get the same rap. Going up in power is definitely helpful but my totally biased internal rule of thumb is to cut power claims in half with all micro amp manufacturers. Even my 900 watt GB Streamliner feels about like my former Eden WT405, which put out 405 watts into 4 ohms. The class D amp feels like it has about half the power compared to a lead sled. YMMV.
 
#11
That's a good point about getting all the gas out of the WTX, make sure you're setting the gain right. You turn the pre up until the clip/overload light is flashing on every note, then back it down just a hair to where it only flashes on the loudest, usually also your lowest, notes. Then you will get the most out of the power section.
 
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#12
The real question here? Is your cab a 4 ohm cabinet? Or is it possibly an 8 ohm cab? I've seen several micro heads that have substantially lower power outputs at 8 ohms than they do at 4 ohms. I would not be surprised if this is the case with your rig.

I actually have the higher powered version of this head, the Eden WTX-500. Frankly, I went in that direction because I didn't want to face the sort of issues you're dealing with. Having a micro head is amazingly convenient. But I did not want to do that at the expense of power. I run that amp through a 1 x 12" neo equipped cab (rated at 8 ohms) and I can play a wide range of venues without feeling under powered.
 
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#13
ShoeManiac said:
The real question here? Is your cab a 4 ohm cabinet? Or is it possibly an 8 ohm cab? I've seen several micro heads that have substantially lower power outputs at 8 ohms than they do at 4 ohms. I would not be surprised if this is the case with your rig.

I actually have the higher powered version of this head, the Eden WTX-500. Frankly, I went in that direction because I didn't want to face the sort of issues you're dealing with. Having a micro head is amazingly convenient. But I did not want to do that at the expense of power. I run that amp through a 1 x 12" neo equipped cab (rated at 8 ohms) and I can play a wide range of venues without feeling under powered.
Click to expand...

They only make that cab he's using in a 4 ohm.
 
#14
Low Class said:
They only make that cab he's using in a 4 ohm.
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It seems that this would be something that the OP should answer. "The cab with whizzer cones" doesn't let us know the model of the cabinet he's running, and the OP hasn't offered up the impedance of his cabinet. If he is in fact running a 4 ohm cabinet, then there may be a problem with the output of his head. But if the cab is rated for 8 ohms? Then it seems more likely that the cabinet is underpowered by the output of the WTX-264.
 
#15
His OP highly insinuated he was running at 4 ohms, and indeed the only Eden 410 with whizzer cones only comes in 4 ohms, so... it was running at 4 ohms. It's the EX410SC. Seems like Eden has gone away from posting sensitivity numbers for their cabinets now, so no way to tell how efficient it is, but I always heard whizzer drivers are not very efficient.
 
#16
Adam Johnson said:
My eden has no umph. Great tone, but no volume or umph behind it. I run it into an eden 410, the cab with the " whizzer" cone speakers in it... 260 watts at 4 ohms and it barely holds up in coffee shop gigs and little outdoor patio gigs. I play in a four piece, with no drummer, just a percussionist on cajon and stuff. Now, I take out an old bxr 300 amp, plug that thing into the same cab and the walls will cave in. Why is this eden so dang whimpy?
Click to expand...

Having a hard time finding an Eden 410 with whizzers....which cab are you using?
 
#17
HolmeBass said:
His OP highly insinuated he was running at 4 ohms, and indeed the only Eden 410 with whizzer cones only comes in 4 ohms, so... it was running at 4 ohms. It's the EX410SC. Seems like Eden has gone away from posting sensitivity numbers for their cabinets now, so no way to tell how efficient it is, but I always heard whizzer drivers are not very efficient.
Click to expand...

If that's what he's using then the cab is part of the problem. Per this Invalid Link Removed that 410 has the same output as a 210xst.

That being said I can keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a guitarist with a 210xst, with a wt550 @ 8 ohms/275 watts....so....maybe it's the head AND the cab....
 
#19
Bassmec said:
It's spec on SPL is 101 dB SPL 1 watt 1 meter so not the most sensitive 4x10 Eden have made.
If you want the loudest Eden 4x10 it's the old original heavy as lead LXT model you are after.:)
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That is indeed quiet for a 410, but not quiet in general. That must be one loud coffee house band the OP plays with! I also wonder if OP was properly setting the gain on the WTX-264. I know from my experience with Eden amps that not getting the gain right will make the amp sound dull and lifeless. Setting the gain right gives a lot more punch and clarity and better dynamic response IME.
 
#20
ShoeManiac said:
It seems that this would be something that the OP should answer. "The cab with whizzer cones" doesn't let us know the model of the cabinet he's running, and the OP hasn't offered up the impedance of his cabinet. If he is in fact running a 4 ohm cabinet, then there may be a problem with the output of his head. But if the cab is rated for 8 ohms? Then it seems more likely that the cabinet is underpowered by the output of the WTX-264.
Click to expand...

They only make one 410 with whizzer cones, The EX410sc4.
 
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