Anyone else just HATE Apple?

[BassManPatsFan]

Firstly, a disclaimer. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool convert to the Cult of Mac. Won't ever go back to Windows. I've even been known to wear blue jeans and a black polo-neck whenever there's a Steve Jobs keynote speech. Not quite got as far as the Apple tattoo yet though.

All these arguments about what can and can't be done on a Mac are moot now anyway, since you can run Windows at full speed with the advent of Parallels, Boot Camp, etc (although if you want to play games, Boot Camp is pretty much the only way to go). Parallels rules - nothing like using coherence mode to run IE on your Mac desktop! I, unfortunately, do have to use Windows from time to time, for testing websites in IE7 and running in IIS. I can now do this directly from OS X using Parallels. I have all the benefits of using a Mac, along with all the benefits of using Windows, all on one desktop, with none of the downsides.

Want a right-click? Plug in a two-button mouse. All recent desktop Macs come with the Mighty Mouse which has a right mouse button anyway, and the current laptops all have right-click functionality by putting two fingers on the trackpad and clicking. Want to fiddle with the hardware? Dead easy with a Mac Pro/Power Mac, and not that hard with an iMac or MacBook. Want low-level OS control via the command line? It's Unix... you've got all the low-level OS control you'll ever need.

OS X does have a learning curve - you can't pile in and expect to use it the same way you use Windows. And it does have its quirks. But when you learn them, you can work far more effortlessly. It's hard to explain, but, once you "get it", it's like a layer of frustration that you'd just grown to accept using Windows is gone, kinda like everything seems to get done with one less action on your part.

My 2p's worth, anyway.

I agree on all points.

 

[marcray]

I love my mac's but I suspect it's because that's what I'm used too, as is probably the case with most of us... my Dad has the top of the line IBM notebook that I have to keep fixing for him and that's pretty nice too... took a minute to figure out where everything was, but it's very nice.

What I do like about mac is that most people aren't to tech'y and my wife and daughter can pretty much navigate the mac real easy, like if it loses it's connection etc, silly things like that (it's never broken), but if my dad loses his connection or worse, then I have to drive to Forest Hills...

 

[Sonic_Death]

Well after using being exposed to Macs for the first two years after being (what I'd like to call) an expert in Windows, I am not that impressed.

I can see why a lot of people would like it, and for me, it really comes down to the fact that they did not know how to properly use a Windows machine.

People are dumb, and only starting to not be dumb nowadays. They'd mess up settings on the computer, not know what programs are better to use than others (like Firefox > IE), they'd click dumb things and get viruses, wouldn't have proper protection, and would just let their machine slowly die down. Then they'd blame the OS.

So now that their Windows machine keeps dying, they see the idea of a Mac, and it looks like a shiny new toy, and they try it. And then since there is really nothing inherently wrong with Macs, they do like it, and they keep using it, and grow to resent Macs. Whatever, that's not a problem for me.

Personally, I just can't get used to them though. Granted I have not used Macs for nearly as long as Windows, but I am a million times more efficient on my machines than on any Mac I have ever used. Even just being able to alt+tab to switch windows very quickly is much faster than with a Mac. I like the keyboads more, I like the shortcuts more (using the apple shortcut for everything is a PITA).

Another thing... since when are Macs better for Music recording/editing and for Graphic Design work. I wasn't aware of this? The few programs that are Mac only Music are not that great IMO and there is at least an equivalent that is on par for Windows. And for Graphic Design, there are tons of Windows only programs that you'd never be able to get on a Mac. The programs that are compatible on Macs also have troubles for me. I have been in 3 different Graphic Design labs for schoolwork at 2 different colleges, and I've had problems with the programs on all of them (and they were all Mac machines). Programs would freeze up and crash, some functions in it would just plain not work. Not to mention I had to bring my own mouse since they had mighty mouses on most of the computers.

Now, overall, I'd get by using a Mac. There are a lot of pros to it which are pretty cool, but it's nothing I can't do on my Windows machine with some ingenuity. All those "effects" and the dock and the animations, I could do with certain programs on XP, but why bother... it doesn't make using my machine any user, if anything, just harder. Personally, though recent findings my say different, I have also found my XP machine to run perfectly smooth. I kind of blame anyone with a slow XP machine to either have insufficient hardware, or to have not taken good care of the OS and let it slow down due to things that could have been resolved.

My bottom line being that a lot the problems that Mac users are listing about Windows, I don't really experience myself. I guess some people just had some unfortunate problems, and decided to not like their OS anymore. Oh well.

 

[Vic Winters]

that's an odd pov... did you buy a car that breaks down a lot to make you a better mechanic also?

He's just saying that people who own PCs know how to open them and work on them when they need to. Mac users generally aren't as proficient. When it's time to upgrade, PC users usually buy more RAM or a bigger HD or a better video card, while Mac users go and buy a whole new system. But then again, if I had to open up my computer with a putty knife, I'd probably buy a whole new computer too.

 

[iamlowsound]

Well after using being exposed to Macs for the first two years after being (what I'd like to call) an expert in Windows, I am not that impressed.

I can see why a lot of people would like it, and for me, it really comes down to the fact that they did not know how to properly use a Windows machine.

People are dumb, and only starting to not be dumb nowadays. They'd mess up settings on the computer, not know what programs are better to use than others (like Firefox > IE), they'd click dumb things and get viruses, wouldn't have proper protection, and would just let their machine slowly die down. Then they'd blame the OS.

So now that their Windows machine keeps dying, they see the idea of a Mac, and it looks like a shiny new toy, and they try it. And then since there is really nothing inherently wrong with Macs, they do like it, and they keep using it, and grow to resent Macs. Whatever, that's not a problem for me.

Personally, I just can't get used to them though. Granted I have not used Macs for nearly as long as Windows, but I am a million times more efficient on my machines than on any Mac I have ever used. Even just being able to alt+tab to switch windows very quickly is much faster than with a Mac. I like the keyboads more, I like the shortcuts more (using the apple shortcut for everything is a PITA).

Another thing... since when are Macs better for Music recording/editing and for Graphic Design work. I wasn't aware of this? The few programs that are Mac only Music are not that great IMO and there is at least an equivalent that is on par for Windows. And for Graphic Design, there are tons of Windows only programs that you'd never be able to get on a Mac. The programs that are compatible on Macs also have troubles for me. I have been in 3 different Graphic Design labs for schoolwork at 2 different colleges, and I've had problems with the programs on all of them (and they were all Mac machines). Programs would freeze up and crash, some functions in it would just plain not work. Not to mention I had to bring my own mouse since they had mighty mouses on most of the computers.

Now, overall, I'd get by using a Mac. There are a lot of pros to it which are pretty cool, but it's nothing I can't do on my Windows machine with some ingenuity. All those "effects" and the dock and the animations, I could do with certain programs on XP, but why bother... it doesn't make using my machine any user, if anything, just harder. Personally, though recent findings my say different, I have also found my XP machine to run perfectly smooth. I kind of blame anyone with a slow XP machine to either have insufficient hardware, or to have not taken good care of the OS and let it slow down due to things that could have been resolved.

My bottom line being that a lot the problems that Mac users are listing about Windows, I don't really experience myself. I guess some people just had some unfortunate problems, and decided to not like their OS anymore. Oh well.

So you took eight paragraphs to prove that macs are more user friendly. I already knew that. Nothing like buying a new camera, plugging it into my computer and not having to install any new software in order to download the pictures. Wait, I also did that with my printer and video camera as well.

lowsound

 

[iamlowsound]

He's just saying that people who own PCs know how to open them and work on them when they need to. Mac users generally aren't as proficient. When it's time to upgrade, PC users usually buy more RAM or a bigger HD or a better video card, while Mac users go and buy a whole new system. But then again, if I had to open up my computer with a putty knife, I'd probably buy a whole new computer too.

My macbook is a year and a half old, I see no reason to upgrade it at all. My dad's IBM laptop has way better everything, but I can boot up, check my email and have my computer shut off before he even has his booted up. He has also added more RAM twice since he got it and it is still way slower. I don't take my computer apart to upgrade it because it doesn't need to be upgraded. I know someone with an old Apple G5 that has never been upgraded that runs faster than any other computer that I have ever seen. Also, if I needed it, I could take my macbook apart and put in more RAM if I wanted to. It isn't that hard.

lowsound

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

Well after using being exposed to Macs for the first two years after being (what I'd like to call) an expert in Windows, I am not that impressed.

I can see why a lot of people would like it, and for me, it really comes down to the fact that they did not know how to properly use a Windows machine.

People are dumb, and only starting to not be dumb nowadays. They'd mess up settings on the computer, not know what programs are better to use than others (like Firefox > IE), they'd click dumb things and get viruses, wouldn't have proper protection, and would just let their machine slowly die down. Then they'd blame the OS.

So now that their Windows machine keeps dying, they see the idea of a Mac, and it looks like a shiny new toy, and they try it. And then since there is really nothing inherently wrong with Macs, they do like it, and they keep using it, and grow to resent Macs. Whatever, that's not a problem for me.

Personally, I just can't get used to them though. Granted I have not used Macs for nearly as long as Windows, but I am a million times more efficient on my machines than on any Mac I have ever used. Even just being able to alt+tab to switch windows very quickly is much faster than with a Mac. I like the keyboads more, I like the shortcuts more (using the apple shortcut for everything is a PITA).

Another thing... since when are Macs better for Music recording/editing and for Graphic Design work. I wasn't aware of this? The few programs that are Mac only Music are not that great IMO and there is at least an equivalent that is on par for Windows. And for Graphic Design, there are tons of Windows only programs that you'd never be able to get on a Mac. The programs that are compatible on Macs also have troubles for me. I have been in 3 different Graphic Design labs for schoolwork at 2 different colleges, and I've had problems with the programs on all of them (and they were all Mac machines). Programs would freeze up and crash, some functions in it would just plain not work. Not to mention I had to bring my own mouse since they had mighty mouses on most of the computers.

Now, overall, I'd get by using a Mac. There are a lot of pros to it which are pretty cool, but it's nothing I can't do on my Windows machine with some ingenuity. All those "effects" and the dock and the animations, I could do with certain programs on XP, but why bother... it doesn't make using my machine any user, if anything, just harder. Personally, though recent findings my say different, I have also found my XP machine to run perfectly smooth. I kind of blame anyone with a slow XP machine to either have insufficient hardware, or to have not taken good care of the OS and let it slow down due to things that could have been resolved.

My bottom line being that a lot the problems that Mac users are listing about Windows, I don't really experience myself. I guess some people just had some unfortunate problems, and decided to not like their OS anymore. Oh well.

I'm an extremely experienced Windows user (since Windows 3.1), plus I'm an Microsoft MCP, so I know all the ins and outs of Windows machines - it's not through lack of knowledge that I have grown to prefer the Mac platform.

Task switching? Option-Tab works on the Mac for open windows, and you've got Spotlight for everything else. Music and graphics software? Well, the Mac has Logic, which I prefer to pretty much any other recording software (including Pro Tools, Ableton, etc), but that's more just what you're used to than anything else. But, for recording beginners, GarageBand trounces anything on Windows for features, accessibility and ease of use, and, what's more, it comes free with the computer. As for graphics software, for the most part, the PC and Mac versions of software have feature parity, so, that being the case, it's just down to personal preference. I just find the interfaces a little slicker on a Mac, but that's by me, for me.

In my 4 years of using Macs, I've had maybe three crashes. Just like Windows, Macs need housekeeping, and installing a crapload of RAM-hogging software can chew up your memory just like it can on Windows. (For Intel Macs, you also need to make sure you're running, wherever possible, Universal Binary versions of your apps, as Rosetta - the PowerPC/Intel converter software - is quite memory-intensive). Macs are also fairly greedy when it comes to virtual memory, so you need to make sure you've always got a decent amount of hard drive space available. But, if you keep an eye on what software you install, and keep a reasonable amount of free drive space, you won't have any problems.

 

[marcray]

He's just saying that people who own PCs know how to open them and work on them when they need to. Mac users generally aren't as proficient. When it's time to upgrade, PC users usually buy more RAM or a bigger HD or a better video card, while Mac users go and buy a whole new system. But then again, if I had to open up my computer with a putty knife, I'd probably buy a whole new computer too.

"people who own PCs know how to open them and work on them when they need to. Mac users generally aren't as proficient." - please back this up with some sources...

...and some have said in this thread that mac users are pretentious and arrogant...

 

[funkometer]

Apples the way to go if you ask me. Mac's are much easier to use, I know where everything is. Ill spend 30 min on my pc just trying to figure out how much ram is in it. Ive had my G4 for at least 6 years, with no problems. Hell, PC's outdate so quick. I have a three button mouse, no problem there either. Big bonus is my comp hardly ever crashes, and Ive never found a virus,worm on my comp, NEVER! I put Vista on my crappy PC, and now I cant get it off!! Ive also updated my video card, installed a new dvd-r drive, and installed RAM on my mac.Take that!

 

[scottice]

I have been a Mac owner since 1989. I guess I drank the kool-aid because I cannot stand PC's.

I have a small network 10 of PC's at my shop and they occasionally give me problems. Luckily I have a few good friends in the IT industry that help me out when things go wrong.

I used to be a graphic designer and the simplicity of a Macintosh (plug and play) makes them the best choice for ME. I have an iPod... an old one even... and it still works just fine. I am typing right now on my 5 year old 667 mHz Titanium laptop that has NEVER crashed. I am loyal to the brand because I have RARELY had any problems with the product personally.

I also do not BASH those who choose PC's. I have to use them as well and life goes on. I just prefer the Mac. No big deal.

 

[Sonic_Death]

Apples the way to go if you ask me. Mac's are much easier to use, I know where everything is. Ill spend 30 min on my pc just trying to figure out how much ram is in it.

Maybe you weren't being serious and were trying to make a point, but, if you were being serious... it is not nearly that difficult. You just go to your desktop, right click My Computer, go to properties, and it displays it right there.

Hell, PC's outdate so quick.

Hm.. strange. I'd say if anything that Apple products outdate so quickly. It seems that every year there is a new iPod that people have to go out and buy just because it is the "new" thing. PC's are also very easily upgradeable, and if you just do it slowly over time, it is not that expensive at all.

 

[Vic Winters]

...and some have said in this thread that mac users are pretentious and arrogant...

I was just explaining Pilgrim's post.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
I've also noticed that because PC users tend to be inside their machines a lot, they have a much higher degree of ability to open up their computers and solve hardware problems. Apples break less often, but when they do, most of the Apple users I know don't have a clue how to get inside their machine and troubleshoot - they haven't had to do it and as a result, they're pretty helpless.

Comprehension. It does wonders.

 

[marcray]

I was just explaining Pilgrim's post.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
I've also noticed that because PC users tend to be inside their machines a lot, they have a much higher degree of ability to open up their computers and solve hardware problems. Apples break less often, but when they do, most of the Apple users I know don't have a clue how to get inside their machine and troubleshoot - they haven't had to do it and as a result, they're pretty helpless.

I'm still waiting for your, or his sources of, what was it you said...???

people who own PCs know how to open them and work on them when they need to. Mac users generally aren't as proficient.

Please back up this claim...

 

[Connor]

PC & linux snobbery far exceeds any mac snobbery i've ever seen.

 

[SuperDuck]

In my experience and without reading any of this thread, most Mac people I know in real life are fairly obnoxious.

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

PC & linux snobbery far exceeds any mac snobbery i've ever seen.

+1. Just try speaking to any PC user who is into modding, and try getting a word in edgeways when they start talking about their latest water-cooling system or their latest high-performance graphics card.

 

[Jeremy Crockett]

Firstly, a disclaimer. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool convert to the Cult of Mac. ...

I'll grant that the playing field is more level in terms of software.

Why then, would anyone pay that much more $$$ for Intel-based hardware that is non-upgradeable?

Other than run on grossly proprietary hardware, what is OSXXXIIIXVI doing that a Linux distro or Windows cannot?

 

[scottice]

Some people like design aesthetics and are willing to pay for them. No harm in that.

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

I'll grant that the playing field is more level in terms of software.

Why then, would anyone pay that much more $$$ for Intel-based hardware that is non-upgradeable?

Other than run on grossly proprietary hardware, what is OSXXXIIIXVI doing that a Linux distro or Windows cannot?

Current Macs are hardly proprietary hardware - for the most part, the guts inside a Mac are the same guts you get in any PC. If you know what you're doing, it's just as easy to service a Mac as it is a PC, they're just a little harder to get into. With a little software trickery and a patched bootloader, you can even run OS X on standard PC hardware.

Granted, in terms of sheer functionality, there isn't much a Mac can do that a Windows or Linux machine can't also do. Similarly, there isn't much an Alembic bass can do that a Squier or SX can't also do... it's all about the user experience. For me, everything's a lot less effort on a Mac. Never need to worry about drivers, viruses, compatability issues, stability - as Apple rightly states, it just works.

 

[scottice]

For me, everything's a lot less effort on a Mac. Never need to worry about drivers, viruses, compatability issues, stability - as Apple rightly states, it just works.

+1 For me as well.