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Anyone else NOT into lightweight mini rigs?
- Thread starter Rambazamba
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Now 14 pages 
Anyway, I've known bobyoung53 for a long time and I can tell you he gets a incredible sound from his SVTs, even when playing DB!!!
It is totally a personal thing. I've played a lot of different rigs (including many SVTs) over the years and my general observation is that all amps sound different and for every accepted rule like "10s are punchier and brighter than 15s" or "solid state is cold and lifeless" there are plenty of exceptions. Certainly large class D power amps are not deficient in the low end or else noone would be rocking them for big tours. I've heard wimpy tube amps and earthshaking solid state amps.
Use your ears and stop worrying about what everyone else tells you.
See you in another 6 pages!!!
Anyway, I've known bobyoung53 for a long time and I can tell you he gets a incredible sound from his SVTs, even when playing DB!!!
It is totally a personal thing. I've played a lot of different rigs (including many SVTs) over the years and my general observation is that all amps sound different and for every accepted rule like "10s are punchier and brighter than 15s" or "solid state is cold and lifeless" there are plenty of exceptions. Certainly large class D power amps are not deficient in the low end or else noone would be rocking them for big tours. I've heard wimpy tube amps and earthshaking solid state amps.
Use your ears and stop worrying about what everyone else tells you.
See you in another 6 pages!!!
Yeah, I love 'em ... as long as someone else will schlep it around for me. Aside from the cool factor on stage, there's no reason for me to carry the extra load. Let me know how YOU feel when you're 64.Everywhere I look people praise the tiny class D gear, leightweight neo speakers, their rigs that fit into a handbag. Some old rockers stand strong to their SVT with their 8x10 for rocker reasons. But honestly - isn't there anyone around who just likes a big fat iron transformer and a big bad speaker in a massive cabinet that reeeeally moves some air, that you can physically feel when you play it and handles all the heavy low-end you could ever possibly want? I mean, come on! Who needs that tiny little mini poopie anyway when you can really rattle some bones instead? Just saying...
I disagree with the inference that not using Class D specifically somehow makes that bassist a Luddite. We are talking about music production and how things sound is the point, not how new it is. Does that make every engineer who opts for a microphone that was designed in the 1940's also a Luddite? How about all of our DB friends, why don't they just play electric and get with it? Why are all of these drummers not playing electronic kits? It's so much more convenient. Don't you know how good convenience sounds?
We should probably just switch to new songs too... I mean whats with all those standards???? yea lol, standards during the great depression hahaha. Lets all just rock the latest black eyed peas and bieber tracks... theyre so much lighter and easier to play.
He also never returned to explain where the misogyny was located.
As a note to anyone saying "Well, do you hate the sound man? Why disrespect him with a big rig and make his job hard?", a few points:
First, while I understand the sound man is on the venue's dime and it's his job to make a variety of bands sound good, that doesn't mean they should all sound the same. I know they have to do it for band after band, but if they're getting paid, then they aren't being paid to take the route of least effort. I work tech support, if I took the path of least effort, I'd be fired, I'm paid to do the best I can and if need be put in that little extra to go the distance. Far too often I encounter sound men who maybe just don't want to put in the effort, are burnt out or maybe just lazy. They go through the motions, do the same setup on every band. If all I ask for is for him to mic me, giving me the same common courtesy afforded to guitar players, I shouldn't get attitude like I just spit on his mother's grave. I shouldn't be treated like I don't know what I'm doing, and be flat out told "no, a DI is better". If anything I should be asked "okay, what would you like?" which is a starting point to then come to a compromise amenable to both parties and resulting in a good sound, and when I do get to have those conversations, it always ends up with the best sound.
Second, my amp has a volume knob, just because it's big doesn't mean it's going to blow out the room.
Third, and this seems to be lost on so many sound men now, is that I can carry the room, I don't need to be in the PA, let the PA be for the vocals and drums and keyboards, and mix the guitar and bass up as needed. Going back to point one, when a sound man starts the conversation with what I want, I'll usually ask for them to use my mic (I always bring one so I'm not putting them out to find one), and then say let's work out a good volume for my rig, and then you can fill in as needed with the mic. That method has absolutely garnered the best live sound when I play. I turn my rig up to where I want it, we see if that's a good point to fill the majority of the space, make some tweaks (little louder, little quieter as needed), and then he REINFORCES that sound if needed, because that's the purpose of a PA, sound reinforcement. Enforce with the amp, reinforce with the PA. Many times, I'll talk afterwards and they'll say they left me out of the mains entirely and just used the mic for the monitors, and that it was an exceptionally good sound. Often when the PA does the heavy lifting for the bass, it and the bass drums get too muddled and boomy, but when you Mic and go with the amp carrying the room, you don't end up with all that excess low end excursion that the PA is capable of. It also gets muddled up in the mids where they overlap, but the cause is likely because while the sound man sets the levels of the mix in the PA, they don't do too much EQ'ing, so especially off a DI, you might just be getting everything with little EQ, except maybe to tame the highs.
First, while I understand the sound man is on the venue's dime and it's his job to make a variety of bands sound good, that doesn't mean they should all sound the same. I know they have to do it for band after band, but if they're getting paid, then they aren't being paid to take the route of least effort. I work tech support, if I took the path of least effort, I'd be fired, I'm paid to do the best I can and if need be put in that little extra to go the distance. Far too often I encounter sound men who maybe just don't want to put in the effort, are burnt out or maybe just lazy. They go through the motions, do the same setup on every band. If all I ask for is for him to mic me, giving me the same common courtesy afforded to guitar players, I shouldn't get attitude like I just spit on his mother's grave. I shouldn't be treated like I don't know what I'm doing, and be flat out told "no, a DI is better". If anything I should be asked "okay, what would you like?" which is a starting point to then come to a compromise amenable to both parties and resulting in a good sound, and when I do get to have those conversations, it always ends up with the best sound.
Second, my amp has a volume knob, just because it's big doesn't mean it's going to blow out the room.
Third, and this seems to be lost on so many sound men now, is that I can carry the room, I don't need to be in the PA, let the PA be for the vocals and drums and keyboards, and mix the guitar and bass up as needed. Going back to point one, when a sound man starts the conversation with what I want, I'll usually ask for them to use my mic (I always bring one so I'm not putting them out to find one), and then say let's work out a good volume for my rig, and then you can fill in as needed with the mic. That method has absolutely garnered the best live sound when I play. I turn my rig up to where I want it, we see if that's a good point to fill the majority of the space, make some tweaks (little louder, little quieter as needed), and then he REINFORCES that sound if needed, because that's the purpose of a PA, sound reinforcement. Enforce with the amp, reinforce with the PA. Many times, I'll talk afterwards and they'll say they left me out of the mains entirely and just used the mic for the monitors, and that it was an exceptionally good sound. Often when the PA does the heavy lifting for the bass, it and the bass drums get too muddled and boomy, but when you Mic and go with the amp carrying the room, you don't end up with all that excess low end excursion that the PA is capable of. It also gets muddled up in the mids where they overlap, but the cause is likely because while the sound man sets the levels of the mix in the PA, they don't do too much EQ'ing, so especially off a DI, you might just be getting everything with little EQ, except maybe to tame the highs.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,949
- 5
- 220,586
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I was mainly addressing the OPs premise that the new stuff sucks. He does sound like a luddite.
Great topic. I am all about trying for great sound with compact gear. The older I get the more I've played averaging about 70 gigs/year that last 3 years with several bands. I will never turn down from playing through a festival back line of an SVT 8x10 or something similar but if I am moving it my 4lb TH 500 and either my pair of SVT 210AV's (52lbs) or my Markbass 104HR (56lbs) is perfect for bars or clubs/outdoors. 9 out of 10 times I am going through subs and the TH 500 puts out plenty of stage volume competing with usually 2 loud guitarists plus keyboards. Plus I can get any tone that I like. My 50+ year old body thanks semi-mini rigs every weekend!
I would put my rig up against any lead sled. In a blind test you would never know the difference. Genz Benz ShuttlMax 12.2 and Bergantino 4x10.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Everywhere I look people praise the tiny class D gear, lightweight neo speakers, their rigs that fit into a handbag. Some old rockers stand strong to their SVT with their 8x10 for rocker reasons. But honestly - isn't there anyone around who just likes a big fat iron transformer and a big bad speaker in a massive cabinet that reeeeally moves some air, that you can physically feel when you play it and handles all the heavy low-end you could ever possibly want? I mean, come on! Who needs that tiny little mini poopie anyway when you can really rattle some bones instead? Just saying...
Word.
I'm just nitpicking here and I understand the point you're making, but... as a gigging drummer I can tell you that disassembling and hauling my largest acoustic kit to the gig, setting it up, tearing it down, hauling it home and reassembling it is FAR simpler than when I've attempted to do it on my Roland TD-25KV electronic drums. They just don't travel well, even with a nice padded bag made to hold all of the pads and cymbals. The cables and the rack make it a major hassle. Even getting through the front door of my house with the Roland's rack is a pain, let alone stuffing it into my car. After all that I still have to separately carry a hihat stand and a bass drum pedal, or opt to just haul my entire hardware bag and ignore the additional cymbal stands and weight for the sake of keeping everything self-contained. I suppose if I were on a TD-1KV "kit" I would agree with your point. Nitpicking completed
This is not my rig but I have spent a lot of time with it and I'd have to say that the Arkham is great! I'd take it over the Ampeg in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong the Ampeg is also very good. The Arkham however has endless possibilities.
Gotcha. And your post was funny but I think that is a common element in these discussions that newer, lighter, more powerful automagically equals better tone (what cognitive bias? I have no idea what you're talking about). In my previous post I talked about how both are viable options based on that bassist's needs and tonal goals.
I don't carry a specially heavy rig but would definitely get a class D amp if gigging enough to justify it. OTOH I've yet to see a small cab, no matter how state of the art, that cuts it in the context I usually play (mostly HC & metal, loud drummer, 2 guitars).
I love my little gig bag Aguilar TH500 for “quiet” gigs. Does it sound anywhere near as good as my Sunn? Holy hell, no. Not in a million years and it never, ever, ever will. But it still sounds damn good. I’ll rock a Peavey Mark IV through a Crate cab if I have to, I don’t care THAT much. House backline generally trumps hauling my own amp, regardless of how crappy it is.
However the weight of my tube gear isn’t an issue. I spend $100/month on a gym, why am I going to complain about lifting an 80 pound head once or twice a week? It’s shaging exercise! Come on, we’re bassists, not guitarists!
Size is more of an issue. I drive a Prius. In one band my rig consists of a 2x15, 4x12 and two tube heads. Do I need all of that? Yes. In fact I could probably use more. But I’m in the process of downsizing just for the sake of not having to ask someone else to haul half of my rig. I mean it’s still cheaper than getting a van.
Class D was a definite consideration. As was class A/B. But at the end-of-the-day I wanted tubes. Because tubes amps sound better for this particular genre. It’s just more musical. And bigger cabinets move more air. And “low stage volume” gigs don’t sound as good. I made some compromises but will still get the sound I want. But if I had roadies and an 18 wheeler it would definitely be rows and rows and rows of big-ass tube amps.
There’s also the cool factor. A little class D with a micro-cab is kind of like the clip-on tuners of amps. Which means it’s like wearing a pair of Crocs on stage. “But it’s all about the music!” Sure it is. Nice Crocs, buddy.
However the weight of my tube gear isn’t an issue. I spend $100/month on a gym, why am I going to complain about lifting an 80 pound head once or twice a week? It’s shaging exercise! Come on, we’re bassists, not guitarists!
Size is more of an issue. I drive a Prius. In one band my rig consists of a 2x15, 4x12 and two tube heads. Do I need all of that? Yes. In fact I could probably use more. But I’m in the process of downsizing just for the sake of not having to ask someone else to haul half of my rig. I mean it’s still cheaper than getting a van.
Class D was a definite consideration. As was class A/B. But at the end-of-the-day I wanted tubes. Because tubes amps sound better for this particular genre. It’s just more musical. And bigger cabinets move more air. And “low stage volume” gigs don’t sound as good. I made some compromises but will still get the sound I want. But if I had roadies and an 18 wheeler it would definitely be rows and rows and rows of big-ass tube amps.
There’s also the cool factor. A little class D with a micro-cab is kind of like the clip-on tuners of amps. Which means it’s like wearing a pair of Crocs on stage. “But it’s all about the music!” Sure it is. Nice Crocs, buddy.
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