Anyone else out there -Not- a Huge Jaco Fan??

[rockstarbassist]

Been there, done that.

FWIW, one of my 'new finds' is The 13th Floor Elevators...a band from the '60s that I missed out when I was a kid.
"Jazz weeny"?
...ya can't get anymore anti-technical than the Elevators.

So, again, the point is about heart/soul & not technique/amount of notes.
Too many of you (yes, y-o-u) are stuck in the "Too many notes = complexity = elitist music" camp. If I don't get 'it'...then it's elitist & I don't want to get 'it'.
Just for S's & G's...how do you feel reading music?

Lastly-
I think the true believers here (Bruce, Jerry, Pedro, et al) are right on-point.

The true believers are already dead and buried from the Kool-Aid, my friend!

You have no hope!

And as I posted above, I love technical difficulties (even the song!). What you (yes, y-o-u) and others are trying to argue is that "technicality" validates "good" or "talent" or "the best", when of course, it doesn't.

And to further that, I've been to your "other side", thumbing my nose at anything that wasn't otherwordly difficult or proficient, and wasted YEARS not getting down on simpler stuff that is just a d@mn good tune. I'm trying to play catch up now, and I still have a lot to go.

 

[Bassmickeyd]

rockstarbassist: " swear to all that is holy, if some ignoramus attempts another "Jaco = Mozart" comparison, you better be glad you're on the other end of this computer...

Mozart was the most accomplished and (arguably, besides Bach) accoladed musician in history. And this is after hundreds of years.

I ask people who have been on the music scene, pro players for 20+ years in rock, pop, country, etc. who have never even heard of the guy. Who are more famous/accomplished than you OR me. "
.................................
Dear rockstarbassist
It must be warm and cosy in your 'all that is holy' shell.
Here's a Mozart = Jaco comparison........
Mozart was a young tortured artist/composer who received some attention and money when he was alive. He suffered from mental problems and drank to excess. His income and popularity diminished in the last 5-years of his life and he died poor at the age of 35-years old.
Jaco was a young tortured artist/composer who received some attention and money while he was alive. He suffered from mental problems and drank to excess. His income and popularity diminished in the last 5-years of his life and he died poor at the age of 35-years old.
Only time will tell how Jaco's composing will be viewed in the future.
If it is up to the 'said' bassists who have deemed it unworthy, it'll slip below the radar and be forgotten.

And as for what your supposed 'pro musicians friends' don't know I'm sure can fill volumes of any monthly publication. How about IQ Magazine? (guess)
When did being ill informed be something you brag about?
When I hear a name of a musician someone says is good I go look them up, I don't come to the conclusion they must not be very good if I haven't heard about them.

 

[rockstarbassist]

rockstarbassist: " swear to all that is holy, if some ignoramus attempts another "Jaco = Mozart" comparison, you better be glad you're on the other end of this computer...

Mozart was the most accomplished and (arguably, besides Bach) accoladed musician in history. And this is after hundreds of years.

I ask people who have been on the music scene, pro players for 20+ years in rock, pop, country, etc. who have never even heard of the guy. Who are more famous/accomplished than you OR me. "
.................................
Dear rockstarbassist
It must be warm and cosy in your 'all that is holy' shell.
Here's a Mozart = Jaco comparison........
Mozart was a young tortured artist/composer who received some attention and money when he was alive. He suffered from mental problems and drank to excess. His income and popularity diminished in the last 5-years of his life and he died poor at the age of 35-years old.
Jaco was a young tortured artist/composer who received some attention and money while he was alive. He suffered from mental problems and drank to excess. His income and popularity diminished in the last 5-years of his life and he died poor at the age of 35-years old.
Only time will tell how Jaco's composing will be viewed in the future.
If it is up to the 'said' bassists who have deemed it unworthy, it'll slip below the radar and be forgotten.

And as for what your supposed 'pro musicians friends' don't know I'm sure can fill volumes of any monthly publication. How about IQ Magazine? (guess)
When did being ill informed be something you brag about?
When I hear a name of a musician someone says is good I go look them up, I don't come to the conclusion they must not be very good if I haven't heard about them.

Again-
you're going to sit there (with a straight face I might add) and attempt to compare Mozart's impact on music AS A WHOLE to Jaco's bass playing??

Having bad habits doesn't equate you with being a musical legend...

I should call my old Music History teacher and bitch about Jaco not being on the front cover, right??

There's just no hope for you guys... It saddens me to no end...

And for the people I know that have played over the years, it doesn't mean they haven't heard them- it just means if they have, it obviously means as little to them and millions of others where he isn't even in the same convo as other bassists...

 

[Stone Age]

Having mental problems, being an alcoholic, and dying broke doesn't make a musician great... It doesn't preclude it, either.

Not hearing about someone doesn't mean they're not good, but hearing them play and not liking a second of it means a lot.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Not hearing about someone doesn't mean they're not good, but hearing them play and not liking a second of it means a lot.

This is about as far from truth as you can get-

We need more people like you. This stuff just cracks me up!

 

[chroma601]

I have nothing but respect for Jaco. If I had a tenth of his talent I'd be a far better bassist than I am now. That said, I don't listen to him very much. Not my cup of tea.

But thank goodness I got a chance to hear him and appreciate him. Thank goodness for the diversity of musical styles. Music is a language, and Jaco spoke it eloquently. I can appreciate that on many levels.

James Joyce's work is undoubtedly brilliant, but he's not an easy read for me either. Just because I'm not into something doesn't make it less wonderful than what it is.

 

[NKUSigEp]

I don't find anything particularly mind-blowing, ground-breaking, or otherwise with his playing. And he looks like Jimmy Fallon from SNL.

 

[D.Don]

It's just as possible to never "get it", because it's still pretty darned boring.

I've opened up to a lot of music over the years of playing.

I've been fed it all from the Jaco camp since I started almost 9 years ago.

It still does absolutely zip.

For some, excitement is sitting alone in your room, working out a Jaco solo or whatever. Others, it's in front of 10,000 screaming people playing 3 chords and a minor.

I only argue this topic so heatedly because so many of the Jaco or elitist or what the crap ever fools w/ blinders on seem to think the latter is somehow "less", when in reality, and outside of bassdom, nobody really cares...

The fact of the matter is, there's a lot more arrogant, stuck up @-holes coming from his side about this topic. For people who preach "acceptance" for styles others don't particularly like, there's way, way too much condemnation and overall rudeness and ignorance of that same "acceptance" that isn't being practiced. Or even attempted.

Quit with the double standards, and maybe people will start to open up and/or listen.

It's very sad to see attitudes from "mature" or "seasoned" bassists with this outlook. It's so prevalent here it's beyond laughable. Mostly why I don't even get involved w/ these threads.

Man, stop taking it so seriously!!

You compare high flying jazz with quite simplistic pop/rock, dude, the deal about Jaco is his achievements in a genre you neither seem to like nor wish to understand, the guy invented the fretless bass, and then he created a style and a music language around it. His playing is one thing, his musicianship and what he achieved in his short period in the history of jazz-music is something else.

All of us know there's tons of good players out there, and tons of dudes who wrote legendary tunes and got billions of people to listen to and love it, still, that doesn't mean all of them added something to the development of a music genre.... some of them did, beatles, stones, elvis, hendrix, these guys did exactly what jaco did, in their genre, and that's awesome too ..

Jaco added a fundamental piece to modern jazz, just live with it, and accept that the dude was a genius ...

You won't like it a lot unless you understand it, as with everything, I totally dislike metal, I really get sick in my ears by listening to it, and you talk about flee, to me, he's nothing, but hey, I can see why some peeps think he's great and why many bass players like what he does, maybe he will make history too, only time will tell ...



D.Don

 

[UncleBalsamic]

Again the problem with these discussions about Jaco aren't just the "diehard" fans but also the haters who dismiss Jaco without having properly hearing his work. I wouldn't form a full opinion having only heard a few bits of songs, I might say I don't like [whatever] from what I've heard but I wouldn't say [whatever] is rubbish overall.

It may be that you actually do dislike all of his work or you really love his work. That's your opinion and your entitled to it and you can't say it's wrong.

What you can't say however, is that Jaco is the best or that Jaco isn't very good without qualitfying it with "in my opinion".

 

[Stone Age]

This is about as far from truth as you can get-

We need more people like you. This stuff just cracks me up!

How so?

 

[rockstarbassist]

Man, stop taking it so seriously!!

You compare high flying jazz with quite simplistic pop/rock, dude, the deal about Jaco is his achievements in a genre you neither seem to like nor wish to understand, the guy invented the fretless bass, and then he created a style and a music language around it. His playing is one thing, his musicianship and what he achieved in his short period in the history of jazz-music is something else.

All of us know there's tons of good players out there, and tons of dudes who wrote legendary tunes and got billions of people to listen to and love it, still, that doesn't mean all of them added something to the development of a music genre.... some of them did, beatles, stones, elvis, hendrix, these guys did exactly what jaco did, in their genre, and that's awesome too ..

Jaco added a fundamental piece to modern jazz, just live with it, and accept that the dude was a genius ...

You won't like it a lot unless you understand it, as with everything, I totally dislike metal, I really get sick in my ears by listening to it, and you talk about flee, to me, he's nothing, but hey, I can see why some peeps think he's great and why many bass players like what he does, maybe he will make history too, only time will tell ...



D.Don

Oh ok... that's next on my list-

the complete history of jazz... right after my Pantera CD's break from playing them so much... sure thing...

 

[pedro]

I like hockey...A LOT.

Ditto. Still the fastest greatest game in the world. IMO. YMMV, etc.

 

[rockstarbassist]

How so?

There's tons of "great" music out there you couldn't pay me to listen to anymore...

It does nothing for me.

Broad generalizations of any kind are failed from the offset, simply because they're just that- generalized (and usually unfounded) opinions.

I've heard and seen and read a lot more bashing of the "average" bassist who is actually out there on the radio, on the road, with endorsements, record deals, living a comfortable life playing music that "sucks".

I get it.

Why?

Because I've been there. From my first post, as it always is in my semi-annual contributions to these threads, is about appreciation.

If you can't appreciate some low tuned, fuzzed out, overdriven thick basslines behind some kick@ss double-kicks and wailing guitar solos, great. It just proves my point again, over and over, that it's you are the people who aren't growing and/or appreciating, while you're railing on the people who aren't as fond of your hero for not doing the exact same thing.

Most of the what I (and Billy Sheehan) like to call "jazz weenies" are the people who would have a massive stroke if they heard overdriven guitar for more than 5 seconds.

I was on hiatus for a while from the genre, and glad to be home. It's what moves me, and what makes me happy.

 

[D.Don]

Oh ok... that's next on my list-

the complete history of jazz... right after my Pantera CD's break from playing them so much... sure thing...

A cpl of my friends played with, I think white zombies drummer, on MIT during the early 90's, he was a student there (Ivan something?), they had a really great time trying to play bossanova with him .. (He couldn't stay away from double kicks, and he hit the drums REALLY hard even when tryin to play soft.. they called him "Ivan the Terrible")

But they sure had a good time together anyways!



D.Don

 

[rockstarbassist]

A cpl of my friends played with, I think white zombies drummer, on MIT during the early 90's, he was a student there (Ivan something?), they had a really great time trying to play bossanova with him .. (He couldn't stay away from double kicks, and he hit the drums REALLY hard even when tryin to play soft.. they called him "Ivan the Terribel")

But they sure had a good time together anyways!



D.Don

Yeah I'd like to have jammed with Dime and Vince on a nice Pearl trap set and Dime on a Gibson ES-335!

 

[derrenleepoole]

Ditto. Still the fastest greatest game in the world. IMO. YMMV, etc.

What about track cycling, which Team GB has just won a Gold Medal at the Olympics?

That's way faster than ice hockey

 

[Stone Age]

There's tons of "great" music out there you couldn't pay me to listen to anymore...

It does nothing for me.

Broad generalizations of any kind are failed from the offset, simply because they're just that- generalized (and usually unfounded) opinions.

I've heard and seen and read a lot more bashing of the "average" bassist who is actually out there on the radio, on the road, with endorsements, record deals, living a comfortable life playing music that "sucks".

I get it.

Why?

Because I've been there. From my first post, as it always is in my semi-annual contributions to these threads, is about appreciation.

If you can't appreciate some low tuned, fuzzed out, overdriven thick basslines behind some kick@ss double-kicks and wailing guitar solos, great. It just proves my point again, over and over, that it's you are the people who aren't growing and/or appreciating, while you're railing on the people who aren't as fond of your hero for not doing the exact same thing.

Most of the what I (and Billy Sheehan) like to call "jazz weenies" are the people who would have a massive stroke if they heard overdriven guitar for more than 5 seconds.

I was on hiatus for a while from the genre, and glad to be home. It's what moves me, and what makes me happy.

I don't know what you think I meant, but I'll explain it. I've heard Jaco and I think his music sucks. Does that clear it up?

 

[rockstarbassist]

I don't know what you think I meant, but I'll explain it. I've heard Jaco and I think his music sucks. Does that clear it up?

Yes.

Because you're on my team.

The right team.

 

[pedro]

If you can't appreciate some low tuned, fuzzed out, overdriven thick basslines behind some kick@ss double-kicks and wailing guitar solos, great. It just proves my point again, over and over, that it's you are the people who aren't growing and/or appreciating, while you're railing on the people who aren't as fond of your hero for not doing the exact same thing.

I'm rather curious though how that statement differs from
the statements you seem to be reacting to? How is it different than someone saying that if you can't appreciate the thrill of Richter playing a Beethoven Sonata, or Horowitz playing 'Pictures at An Exhibition' or the Chicago Symphony Orchestra playing Beethovens 9th or Mingus or Parker or Israel "Cachao" López, or yea even Jaco, than the problem is with you?

BTW, I'm still wondering about the tax accounting thing.

 

[fenderhutz]

I am pretty sure I already posted in this thread, but since then I actually listened to a virtual crapload of his work.

His is basically playing classical guitar on a fretless bass. Which for his time was wonderful. All of the chords and changes were brilliant, for bass. But it's NOTHING that hasn't been on classical guitar for 100 years.

I, however, can't stand it.