Anyone flying soon?

[Rocker949]

It did seem to work pretty well to me. But I think you have to keep moving ahead with new technology if you think it'll be more effective. I'm no expert, but that seemed to be the consensus among those in the know.

On a side note, some of the posters in this thread seemed to think the previous methods were a sham as well. I'm not sure what they'd approve of.


OK, there's clearly a conflict of interest here. Probably, someone should be reprimanded for not doing their homework.

That said, it doesn't totally invalidate the use of these machines and it isn't completely damning. As the article states, Chertoff was hardly the only one pushing for them, and other companies that aren't represented by him have now developed the machines as well. Also, notice that the company Chertoff represents was the only one at the time to develop machines that produced gray, much less graphic images. So there was some justification for using them. And you should prefer that feature, right?

What I would prefer is the Dutch scanner which has automated target recognition technology and does not produce a detailed nude image. I went through one of these scanners in Amsterdam over the summer. It only takes three seconds and as far as I know doesn't violate your privacy. There is a link at the end of this post which gives more details. As for what is happening in America, I think the pilot who first refused a scanner summed it up best when he said something to the effect that first they want to see it, then if you refuse that, they want to touch it. I totally agree with him that that is totally unacceptable and a violation of civil liberties.


Link Removed

 

[NateS]

I'm digging this discussion. Not looking to really jump in, other than to say the terrorists have won.

go back to arguing, i'll just read.

 

[JimmyM]

i prefer what's doing down in my undies not be seen, heard, felt or smelled in any way, shape or form while i'm traveling. listen, sometimes i've been going on a while between showers and it's not always pretty. i am an honest person, a frequent flier for the last 12 years, a silver medallion delta flyer for the past 4 years, and i have no criminal record nor any ties to a criminal organization, terrorist or otherwise. you can get into any courtroom in america without your undies being checked unless your undies make the metal detector beep. you can get into any school in america same way. but board a plane? please! no, they need to see what's in our undies now that one terrorist out of the billions of people who flew for the last few decades hid something in his undies.

i'm down with fighting terrorism, but come on...this is not some brand new method of smuggling that nobody's ever seen before. i think we're doing just fine by looking for knives and guns and pointy things and letting the terrorists know there will be a plane full of people that will beat the crap out of them and make it hurt real bad if they try it. no need to look into honest people's private areas.

 

[GregC]

Didja ever think about how quick this would have been shot down if Haliburton made the Xray system? Most of the proponents would be screaming one conspiracy theory or another. But, as you stated, when the political party you agree with is in office, everything is "a-ok" in the name of national security.

Didja ever think about how quick this would have been shot down by its current proponents if the Homeland Security director of the previous administration was benefiting from the sale of these mach--oh wait.



When the political party you disagree with is in office, nothing is allowed in the name of national security.

I don't actually believe that, I'm just demonstrating how overwrought your claims are. Apparently, I have a little more respect for those I disagree with on this issue than you do. Maybe you should give it a shot, because your persistent attempts to paint the folks on the other side as politically motivated don't seem to be working too well. This is quite obviously an issue that cuts across party lines.

 

[A-Step-Towards]

In ways I see it as you want to be protected right and you dont want someone to fly your plane into a building? so you have to put up with this if you want this protection.

Yet

I also think its wrong, it would not make me uncomfortable , but if a guy was feeling up my wife or if i had kids I would not be ok with that.

I just dont see why they have to do this now? like what prompted this? obviously not 9/11 that was almost a decade ago. Was there some recent event that made them start doing this?

 

[A-Step-Towards]

I'm digging this discussion. Not looking to really jump in, other than to say the terrorists have won.

go back to arguing, i'll just read.

If there goal was to make society paranoid , they did. I honestly have no fear of terrorism but some people do i suppose.

 

[JimmyM]

In ways I see it as you want to be protected right and you dont want someone to fly your plane into a building? so you have to put up with this if you want this protection.

Yet

I also think its wrong, it would not make me uncomfortable , but if a guy was feeling up my wife or if i had kids I would not be ok with that.

I just dont see why they have to do this now? like what prompted this? obviously not 9/11 that was almost a decade ago. Was there some recent event that made them start doing this?

yeah, they invented these machines that could do body scanning and needed to sell them. and a terrorist who had made some sort of bomb that didn't work and stored it in his underwear tried to blow up a plane that left from nigeria to detroit last christmas, so they used that to do a sell job on these machines. didn't even board the plane in the usa and now we suffer for it. that's justice.

 

[sloasdaylight]

Patting down granny is what we get for being so politically correct nowadays we wouldn't notice a suicide bomber if they blew up in front of us.

A 90 year old woman is at such a low threat level it's not even funny. As are 12-14 year old kids. We're not Israel, we don't have parents strapping 30 pounds of semtex to their kids and putting them on a bus telling them they're going to be a martyr for what they're about to do, and they and their entire family is going to get into heaven as a result. Yet, because we can't profile individuals, or even state the obvious anymore in this country without fear of being labeled a racist, everyone gets patted down.

 

[FF Petro]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1775

I read this quote several years ago and it popped into my head the first time I heard about this. It's amazing how relevant the quotes of many of our forefathers are 200+ years later.

 

[emor]

it doesn't matter who we elect...they are all flushing us right down the universal toilet. the only difference is what direction they wipe.

I'm probably going to steal this.

 

[emor]

This is the same country where, not too long ago, people with firearms were showing up at presidential rallies.

Something is effed up.

 

[emor]

I'm digging this discussion. Not looking to really jump in, other than to say the terrorists have won.

go back to arguing, i'll just read.

Mission Accomplished, indeed.

 

[Son of Sanford]

Didja ever think about how quick this would have been shot down by its current proponents if the Homeland Security director of the previous administration was benefiting from the sale of these mach--oh wait.



When the political party you disagree with is in office, nothing is allowed in the name of national security.

I don't actually believe that, I'm just demonstrating how overwrought your claims are. Apparently, I have a little more respect for those I disagree with on this issue than you do. Maybe you should give it a shot, because your persistent attempts to paint the folks on the other side as politically motivated don't seem to be working too well. This is quite obviously an issue that cuts across party lines.

Registered Independent who voted for the current administration here. Both sides are the other side for me but it is sad to watch the support for things and finger pointing sway from administration to administration and its easy to see when you are not as consumed with love or misguided allegience for a party. Thanks for playing though.

 

[aborgman]

What alternate security measures do you suggest that are equally effective without violating anyone's imaginary rights?

Easy - go back to what we did before 9/11.

The illusion here is that any of this extra "security" actually provides any extra security.

It doesn't. It merely provides the illusion of such to the masses.

 

[aborgman]

So now we're all profiled and the problem is...?

It's inefficient and completely ineffectual, as well as being rather invasive.

All cost, no benefit.

 

[aborgman]

Sometimes I wonder if somewhere in the back of some folks' minds it just doesn't click that we are at war.

At war.

It doesn't.

Because we aren't.

 

[aborgman]

So we've established that flying IYO is a right (that was my question, wasn't it?).

Flying on a private airliner is likely not a right.

Entering and exiting your public airport funded by tax dollars? Another story.

Does the fact that we're at war matter or change anything security-wise?

Nope, because until there is an official declaration of war by congress - we aren't at war.

(hint - you can't be at war with an ideology)

 

[aborgman]

The pat downs are done without consent?

Yes - in fact, you are civilly liable if you say "I don't want a pat down, I think I'll just leave the airport and not fly instead".

You can't even refuse the pat down and not get on the plane.

 

[aborgman]

Also, no one's junk has been fondled, as far as I know.

My mother-in-law was forced to remove her bra, so they could feel her up.

I've certainly had my junk inadvertently touched during pat-downs.

So yeah, it happens.

 

[Kosko]

Adam Savage accidently brought 2 12" inch razor blades on the plane before his TED talk.



The TSA sucks.