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Anyone flying soon?

#201
damn right it's the naked naughty bits thing. it's also about the government being able to do anything they want under the guise of "national security" and there's no recourse for citizens to do anything except bend over and take it. and of course it's also about these machines being a scam for rapidscan and the former homeland security head to make money with our tax dollars (and all the other politicians they bough...er..."lobbied"). maybe you're ok with all that, brad...i'm not. but since you're ok with it, i'm sure you'd be quite happy for tsa employees to see your wife and kids' privates. so make sure you march them through the machine first.
 
#202
Yeah, I kind of figured that. The question is whether the procedure of a body scan is any different than the metal detector or x-ray (in the case of luggage) that has already been in use for years, as far as what it does and how it infringes on your rights. The search procedure is still the same, the only difference is what information it gathers. Does the fact that nekkid parts are revealed suddenly make it more infringing? The fact that those nekkid parts show up is exactly the reason they are being used, because they make up for what the metal detector simply cannot find, many things of which could be very dangerous.
 
#203
pin_head_47 said:
Yeah, I kind of figured that. The question is whether the procedure of a body scan is any different than the metal detector or x-ray (in the case of luggage) that has already been in use for years, as far as what it does and how it infringes on your rights. The search procedure is still the same, the only difference is what information it gathers. Does the fact that nekkid parts are revealed suddenly make it more infringing? The fact that those nekkid parts show up is exactly the reason they are being used, because they make up for what the metal detector simply cannot find, many things of which could be very dangerous.
Click to expand...
yeah, right. ok then, so when your wife or daughter is forced to allow her naughty bits to be inspected just because it's her time of the month and they detect something in her vagina, don't come crying to me.
 
#206
JimmyM said:
damn right it's the naked naughty bits thing. it's also about the government being able to do anything they want under the guise of "national security" and there's no recourse for citizens to do anything except bend over and take it. and of course it's also about these machines being a scam for rapidscan and the former homeland security head to make money with our tax dollars (and all the other politicians they bough...er..."lobbied"). maybe you're ok with all that, brad...i'm not. but since you're ok with it, i'm sure you'd be quite happy for tsa employees to see your wife and kids' privates. so make sure you march them through the machine first.
Click to expand...

That's classic Jimmy. "Maybe" I am and then "since" I am?


:D
 
#209
JimmyM said:
yeah, right. ok then, so when your wife or daughter is forced to allow her naughty bits to be inspected just because it's her time of the month and they detect something in her vagina, don't come crying to me.
Click to expand...

Maybe we'll find out soon if that's what happens. Has a woman who was having her period flown a commercial airline in the US since these security measures were put into place?
 
#210
Didn't trip the metal detector so I was fine. Still had to stand there for 20 minutes with my shoes off while the half dozen old ladies made multiple trips through them, only to remove one piece of jewelry, trip the metal detectors, remove a single piece, etc.
 
#211
SoonerMatt said:
Didn't trip the metal detector so I was fine. Still had to stand there for 20 minutes with my shoes off while the half dozen old ladies made multiple trips through them, only to remove one piece of jewelry, trip the metal detectors, remove a single piece, etc.
Click to expand...

I love the ones who stand there in all their jewelry and act like the machine is broken.

-Mike
 
#215
The main issue for me, is that (in my opinion) the new security measures are pretty much useless.

Security measures, again my opinion, are more designed as a detereant, than to actually catch people. If they are in the line with a bomb in their bag, and some lady is getting her nail clippers taken away, they are going to think twice about how to get through. Via the checkpoints is not the way to do it.

I mean, if their purpose is not to be a detereant, then they are doing a pretty poor job of it. When was the last time "TSA Apprehends terrorist!" was a news headline.

If you look at it from a "terrorists" perspective, it was already a stupid idea to try and get an explosive device or weapon through the metal detectors and x-ray machines in the first place, as the chances of being caught are huge. They were going to use an alternative method, such as a person on the inside, already. More security increases this deterrent, however it they already were not going to do it, then the added deterrent is pretty much useless.

Not only that, but it is highly ineffective as all the negative impacts still have full effect. People are held up and feel hard done by, more money is spent etc. All of this for what is essentially having little or no benefit.

If the airport security lines get much bigger, the terrorists will just set off the bombs there instead of on the plane ;)



There is the of course the issue of privacy and 'sexual assault', however that is a non-issue when you consider that there is no reason for the processes to be their in the first place.

As far as people who say its not exactly sexual assault etc. You are correct, however like the guy in the "Don't touch my junk" video said, it would be illegal if they weren't the government. If you saw some person patting down a little girl in the street, and she was yelling "Stop touching me!!", would you look it and think it was perfectly reasonable, and not go say anything to the person? Its only because it is done under the guise of a "security precaution" that it seems to be fine. It's a bit of a grey area really.

Personally it seems to me that it is in fact all about money, and really nothing about the security of the people.
 
#216
JimmyM said:
yeah, right. ok then, so when your wife or daughter is forced to allow her naughty bits to be inspected just because it's her time of the month and they detect something in her vagina, don't come crying to me.
Click to expand...

That's not the point I was trying to make, and I never said I was ok with it, either. All I'm saying is that it's hard to say that body scanners are a violation of Fourth Amendment rights, when we've had metal detectors doing the exact same thing for decades. And yes, the metal detectors were also taken to court when they first came out, and were found to be legal so long as they applied to everyone, and were only to be used for the search of weapons or explosives.

Trust me Jimmy, if they frisked either my wife or daughter that way, I'd be just as unhappy as you... the intense pat downs are a whole 'nother ball game in my mind. The question is how do we make are security effective enough while not having to do crap like that.
 
#217
pin_head_47 said:
That's not the point I was trying to make, and I never said I was ok with it, either. All I'm saying is that it's hard to say that body scanners are a violation of Fourth Amendment rights, when we've had metal detectors doing the exact same thing for decades. And yes, the metal detectors were also taken to court when they first came out, and were found to be legal so long as they applied to everyone, and were only to be used for the search of weapons or explosives.

Trust me Jimmy, if they frisked either my wife or daughter that way, I'd be just as unhappy as you... the intense pat downs are a whole 'nother ball game in my mind. The question is how do we make are security effective enough while not having to do crap like that.
Click to expand...
it's never going to be 100% effective. it just doesn't work that way. nothing is foolproof and neither is this. know what happens after this? after a while of these body snatchers, instead of sticking bombs in their underwear, terrorists are going to stick them in their butts. and then when we find the one ass bomber who gets through, tsa is going to require knuckle deep cavity searches for everyone, and they'll expect us to like it, too. metal detectors are nothing like this invasion of privacy, and if they get away with it, it's just the beginning.
 
#218
Two flights done this week, another in about 6 hours, one more on Thursday and then Sunday. So far, nothing but metal detectors for me. Everyone talking about it in line, didn't see anyone complaining. I watched a few pat downs. Quick, painless, some people were laughing.

Simo98 said:
As far as people who say its not exactly sexual assault etc. You are correct, however like the guy in the "Don't touch my junk" video said, it would be illegal if they weren't the government. If you saw some person patting down a little girl in the street, and she was yelling "Stop touching me!!", would you look it and think it was perfectly reasonable, and not go say anything to the person? Its only because it is done under the guise of a "security precaution" that it seems to be fine. It's a bit of a grey area really.
Click to expand...

Yes, and if a doctor was examining someone it would be perfectly reasonable as well. If a massage therapist was working on my thigh, it would be reasonable.

I choose to fly the same way I choose to get a massage or go to the doctor......and all 3 involve a sense of vulnerability I choose to accept.
 
#219
JimmyM said:
it's never going to be 100% effective. it just doesn't work that way. nothing is foolproof and neither is this. know what happens after this? after a while of these body snatchers, instead of sticking bombs in their underwear, terrorists are going to stick them in their butts. and then when we find the one ass bomber who gets through, tsa is going to require knuckle deep cavity searches for everyone, and they'll expect us to like it, too. metal detectors are nothing like this invasion of privacy, and if they get away with it, it's just the beginning.
Click to expand...

Nobody expects anyone to like this. That's not the point.
 
#220
Simo98 said:
The main issue for me, is that (in my opinion) the new security measures are pretty much useless.

Security measures, again my opinion, are more designed as a detereant, than to actually catch people. If they are in the line with a bomb in their bag, and some lady is getting her nail clippers taken away, they are going to think twice about how to get through. Via the checkpoints is not the way to do it.

I mean, if their purpose is not to be a detereant, then they are doing a pretty poor job of it. When was the last time "TSA Apprehends terrorist!" was a news headline.

If you look at it from a "terrorists" perspective, it was already a stupid idea to try and get an explosive device or weapon through the metal detectors and x-ray machines in the first place, as the chances of being caught are huge. They were going to use an alternative method, such as a person on the inside, already. More security increases this deterrent, however it they already were not going to do it, then the added deterrent is pretty much useless.

Not only that, but it is highly ineffective as all the negative impacts still have full effect. People are held up and feel hard done by, more money is spent etc. All of this for what is essentially having little or no benefit.

If the airport security lines get much bigger, the terrorists will just set off the bombs there instead of on the plane ;)



There is the of course the issue of privacy and 'sexual assault', however that is a non-issue when you consider that there is no reason for the processes to be their in the first place.

As far as people who say its not exactly sexual assault etc. You are correct, however like the guy in the "Don't touch my junk" video said, it would be illegal if they weren't the government. If you saw some person patting down a little girl in the street, and she was yelling "Stop touching me!!", would you look it and think it was perfectly reasonable, and not go say anything to the person? Its only because it is done under the guise of a "security precaution" that it seems to be fine. It's a bit of a grey area really.Personally it seems to me that it is in fact all about money, and really nothing about the security of the people.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's pretty red as in herring. So far the best one this thread IMO.
:D

Though I guess it points out a useful counter method... just start yelling "Don't touch me!" like a little girl.
 

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