Did you think some dude on the Interweb who happens to sell brass guitar nuts is going to tell you that they don't make a difference?
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Anyone have a brass nut on a P bass?
- Thread starter ledyard
- Start date
Did you think some dude on the Interweb who happens to sell brass guitar nuts is going to tell you that they don't make a difference?
I always take these sorts of things with a large grain of salt. In the first place, luthiers are seldom if ever materials scientists and their ears are just as susceptible to the vagaries of suggestibility and subjectivity of hearing as everyone else's.
In the second place, they are predisposed to hear a positive difference in improvements they think they are making (and selling) to their instruments.
My Alembic has a brass nut. My Bongo has a compensated nut made of some very hard white substance. They both sound fine to me and I'm not planning on changing either one of them.
I'm getting a brass nut installed on my Modulus Q5 as we speak. But not because I care about brass. I'm looking for an adjustable nut where each string can be adjusted and the options are few so I'm getting a brass Warwick Just-a-nut.
Will share my experiences with it when I get it.
Will share my experiences with it when I get it.
I managed a guitar store '77-'88. I put brass nuts on a lot of instruments, including my own POS '73 Precision. In no instance did it being brass make s bit of difference. All of the perceived "improvements" could more accurately be attributed to the fact that a new nut also entailed the nut being g cut correctly (almost no factory nuts by Fender or Gibson were correct), a proper setup, and new strings.
John
John
I had a bone nut installed on my Squier P5 and the difference all over the neck was astonishing. much more balanced and clear sounding.
Brass, bone, titanium or chocolate covered. Once the string is depressed to the fret or fretboard, the nut is no longer having any effect what-so-ever on the note being played.
I have two 1978 P-Basses. One fretted and one fretless.
Both basses have been played hard over the years and look it.
The fretted bass still has the original nut on it. (I assume it's bone?)
As for the fretless, once I learned I like the nut carved so the stings are very close the fingerboard, I had 3 different nuts break at the E string slot in a period of about 2 years. I recall 2 of them were bone and one was Corian.
I believe this is because on a P-bass, once you carve the slots too deep, there is not enough material left for the nut to remain sturdy. (or maybe I'm just clumsy?)
After the 3rd nut broke, I switched to a brass nut and it has been solid for over 20 years.
I have pretty good ears and can hear a slight difference in the nut material on open strings, but to me, it is miniscule and there is not enough difference to reject the brass nut.
If I ever break a nut on a P-bass again, I would replace it with brass just cause they seem to take more abuse.
Ok, I am done talking about breaking my nuts! ;-)
Both basses have been played hard over the years and look it.
The fretted bass still has the original nut on it. (I assume it's bone?)
As for the fretless, once I learned I like the nut carved so the stings are very close the fingerboard, I had 3 different nuts break at the E string slot in a period of about 2 years. I recall 2 of them were bone and one was Corian.
I believe this is because on a P-bass, once you carve the slots too deep, there is not enough material left for the nut to remain sturdy. (or maybe I'm just clumsy?)
After the 3rd nut broke, I switched to a brass nut and it has been solid for over 20 years.
I have pretty good ears and can hear a slight difference in the nut material on open strings, but to me, it is miniscule and there is not enough difference to reject the brass nut.
If I ever break a nut on a P-bass again, I would replace it with brass just cause they seem to take more abuse.
Ok, I am done talking about breaking my nuts! ;-)
I've replaced dozens of nuts on guitars and basses since the early 70's, many being my instruments. I've used brass, aluminum, bone, plastic, Tusc, even formica. I'm here to say there is more difference with brass than with only open notes.
I can surmise that the change in mass on the headstock, under tension of the strings, makes the difference. It isn't a great change, but I can hear and feel it. Changing mass by using different tuners can also change tone and sustain. Changing the size of frets (and the material) will also affect tone and sustain. Again, the changes may not be huge, and in most cases will be subtle, but they are real just the same.
I can surmise that the change in mass on the headstock, under tension of the strings, makes the difference. It isn't a great change, but I can hear and feel it. Changing mass by using different tuners can also change tone and sustain. Changing the size of frets (and the material) will also affect tone and sustain. Again, the changes may not be huge, and in most cases will be subtle, but they are real just the same.
My '71 Jazz has a brass nut installed, but it had nothing to do with sound. On the very thin '70's necks, the truss rod route is deep enough in my case to actually leave a void below the nut. After the 2nd nut broke in the middle above that gap, I went for a brass one. Problem solved for 25 years since.
Comes standard on my Roger Waters signature P bass. I even added the brass saddles to complete the look. It does only make a difference on the open notes, but every note counts right?
Zero Frets make a lot of sense to me. Is there a reason other than expense that more builders don’t use them?
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I have a brass nut ready to go into my Precision bass.
When I find the time to do it I'm going to record the sound of the original nut, then the brass nut on two different tracks of my multi-track recorder. I'll make sure I use exactly the same settings and play exactly the same basic bassline on each track, no other instruments, just the bass.
That way I can flick between the two (ie. plastic to brass to plastic etc.) on the run and determine once and for-all what difference brass nuts make open or on any fret!
If I can work out how to post sound clips here I'll be sure to share the results.
I have a brass nut ready to go into my Precision bass.
When I find the time to do it I'm going to record the sound of the original nut, then the brass nut on two different tracks of my multi-track recorder. I'll make sure I use exactly the same settings and play exactly the same basic bassline on each track, no other instruments, just the bass.
That way I can flick between the two (ie. plastic to brass to plastic etc.) on the run and determine once and for-all what difference brass nuts make open or on any fret!
If I can work out how to post sound clips here I'll be sure to share the results.
My main PJ has one. I do like the effect on the open strings.
Re: affecting non-open notes - there are a couple of notes on this bass where the string behind the fretted note does buzz (usually only involving double-stops). I can't for sure attribute that to the nut material though, nor can I say for sure that it's audible through the amp (I mostly notice it playing unplugged).
Re: affecting non-open notes - there are a couple of notes on this bass where the string behind the fretted note does buzz (usually only involving double-stops). I can't for sure attribute that to the nut material though, nor can I say for sure that it's audible through the amp (I mostly notice it playing unplugged).
I don't have a bass with brass nut but if it had one I would get it removed and put an original bone/plastic back in. That's just me btw
I think the tonal differences, just like the "dramatic" or "subtle" differences in tone woods, different fingerboards etc. are a lot of smoke and mirrors. There are a bunch of videos and articles out there "proving" that they don't make a difference, and their are a lot of them "proving" that they don't. The sources for a lot of the "they don't make a difference" videos tend to be normal people with no ties to or benefits from guitar companies. The argument against them tends to be "they're not science-y enough" or "their simple minded/uneducated ears can't hear the difference, but I definitely can."
On the flip side, "everything makes a noticeable difference" tends to come from either the guitar companies/luthiers themselves who benefit from selling upgrades to tone woods/fancier nuts, high mass bridges etc. or people who have dropped significant amounts of cash on those instruments/upgrades, and feel the need to justify those purchases.
There could be some differences there sure, but a good setup, new strings, and playing with the knobs on your bass and amp are going to make considerably more noticeable differences. If you feel that a brass nut makes a tonal difference that you HAVE to have, and that makes you want to play bass more or keeps you happy, go for it. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money. I see the added benefits of them being adjustable and durable, but until I have a problem with the nuts that are on my basses now, I'm not going to change anything.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
On the flip side, "everything makes a noticeable difference" tends to come from either the guitar companies/luthiers themselves who benefit from selling upgrades to tone woods/fancier nuts, high mass bridges etc. or people who have dropped significant amounts of cash on those instruments/upgrades, and feel the need to justify those purchases.
There could be some differences there sure, but a good setup, new strings, and playing with the knobs on your bass and amp are going to make considerably more noticeable differences. If you feel that a brass nut makes a tonal difference that you HAVE to have, and that makes you want to play bass more or keeps you happy, go for it. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money. I see the added benefits of them being adjustable and durable, but until I have a problem with the nuts that are on my basses now, I'm not going to change anything.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Those who say nut material had no effect on fretted notes:
Please remove whatever nut you have on your bass and replace it with a stick of soft pencil eraser. Tune, play. Sounds just like usually? No?
The nut is a part of a vibrating system. It affects tone to SOME extent, even for fretted notes.
Please remove whatever nut you have on your bass and replace it with a stick of soft pencil eraser. Tune, play. Sounds just like usually? No?
The nut is a part of a vibrating system. It affects tone to SOME extent, even for fretted notes.
I had a brass nut installed on my P (65 neck, 71 bod.) This was back in the Early Brass Age (1980) so I also added a brass bridge.
The argument was for better sustain, and there may be some scientific validity (e.g., Reverchon's use of "mechanical diode" in turntable/tonearm design.) Anecdotal experience is pretty useless, since they were both installed at the same time, as well as a J pup. Sure sounded good, though.
In any case... you can't crack a brass nut.
The argument was for better sustain, and there may be some scientific validity (e.g., Reverchon's use of "mechanical diode" in turntable/tonearm design.) Anecdotal experience is pretty useless, since they were both installed at the same time, as well as a J pup. Sure sounded good, though.
In any case... you can't crack a brass nut.
