Anyone heard a headless with any dead spots?

[Honch]

As the threads about dead spots comes up at a regular pace, and it's mostly due or thanks to Fenders J or P design, me myself have never ever encountered any headless bass guitar with dead spots as a lot of Fenders (or others). Even if the headless are of wood, graphite, cheapo japanese copies, or original Steinbergers. And they didn't develop over time.

Now, I understand there's a whole lot of other things that makes one just not want to play a headless bass, but as I understand, dead spots is not one of them...

Anyone?

 

[bholder]

I would be surprised if there was any real correlation between a bass having a headstock or not and whether the bass has dead spots or not. I haven't ever had much of an issue with dead spots, though.

 

[Honch]

Let's see what happens in this thread. I've found a correlation, and so did Gene Fields chief designer of Fender in the 70s. Mind you I said that not all headstocked basses had deadspots, they are a few, as well as there are lots of Fenders that has a lot of them. Of course just any headstocked basses with graphite necks and well built, posh ones haven't got them. But as we're talking headless, I just want to know if there's anyone that has encountered one, with as severe dead spots as some as of the old and worst Fenders.

 

[Honch]

Now well then, it seems that the threads headline was that I wanted to know if there's any headstocked basses that has no dead spots. There are already numerous such threads around. I wanted to know only if there's any headless bass, that has any dead spots, regardless of scale. Why should that be so hard to understand? I do sure know of the 32" scale thing.

Do not strut about your collection with headstocked basses that have absolutely no dead spots. I know very well that those exists. I've owned numeruos ones. And still do.

 

[BassHappy]

Now well then, it seems that the threads headline was that I wanted to know if there's any headstocked basses that has no dead spots. There are already numerous such threads around. I wanted to know only if there's any headless bass, that has any dead spots, regardless of scale. Why should that be so hard to understand? I do sure know of the 32" scale thing.

Do not strut about your collection with headstocked basses that have absolutely no dead spots. I know very well that those exists. I've owned numeruos ones. And still do.

Easy Honch

Didn't mean to strike a nerve. My apologies, I obviously misinterpreted your post....

Was simply pointing out the link between one of the most respected headless basses around - Kubicki - and that not everyone remembers that they were originally all medium scale.

I deleted my post.

 

[GretschWretch]

Honch,

I'm not sure how much of a sample is available for your query. Headless basses, like graphite necks, had their moments in the sun but by now are largely an acquired taste of the few, sort of like solid-body violin basses would be. We may not be able to marshal enough deductive individual cases upon which to bass an inductive premise for your question.

 

[bassclef112]

I had a Status Kingbass Standard, bolt on headless graphite neck, mahogany body etc.

This bass was pretty amazing in every way - and had an absolute drop-dead spot on the G string at the 13th fret.
That note didn't really play at all - just thunked. A real tough one to try and assign a reason to other than the natural
harmonic frequency of the entire bass that affected only that one point. I will add that the build quality of this bass was absolutely top shelf...

I have an 86 Steinberger XL-2 with perfect frets (re-done some years ago by Peekamoose here in NYC).
Plays great but there is one note, not exactly dead - more like not quite as live as the rest. Not nearly like what the Kingbass had.

I also had 2 Kubicki's and each had a similar, less than fully responsive note or two. Regardless of scale, you'd think with
all those laminations the neck wouldn't do that. Again, I believe it was just the sum of the parts.

Clearly the dead spot discussion generates a variety of responses. I've been through several dozen basses and found most have
at least one to some degree, whether headless, multi-lam, bolted, neck-thru...I even had a custom Alembic with one honker right in the
middle of the neck. I think there are many people that don't notice the more subtle ones because of their technique. Play relatively rapidly,
or do "moving" parts and you don't notice.

It's the whole notes that really point them out.

 

[GeneralElectric]

Hey Honch,

I've played a bunch of the original pre-Gibson headless Steinbergers, a few status basses, and there was a local bass player in my old hometown who had a crazy custom made headless bass from Germany. None of them had noticeable dead spots that I recall.

Stan Jay from Mandolin Brothers (which was my childhood guitar store) was one of the guys who helped design and pioneer those headless designs with Ned Steinberger. He told me specifically that all stringed instruments have dead spots. Guitars, basses, cellos, etc. This comes from the resonant frequencies inherent to all things. Most Fender style instruments have it on the G string somewhere between frets 4 and 7. Rickenbackers have it on their D string between frets 7 and 9. The list goes on, with each specific instrument design having inherent flaws. Add or subtract mass from the headstock or bridge and you'll see the deadspot move around. Use heavier strings and watch you fundamental get choked. People have tried all sorts of things to eliminate dead spots such as Fat Finger, Fat Head, etc.

The theory behind the headless basses was to negate, not eliminate, dead spots on instruments. The working theory is that more mass on the headstock would lower the resonant frequency. Ned Steinberger's solution was to effectively eliminate all extraneous mass from the headstock end of the instrument, thereby raising the resonant frequency and moving the deadspot to higher frets where you wouldn't normally play. @bassclef112 is kinda SOL because he wants to play the 13th fret.

The rigidity of the neck and instrument is also a factor, which is why they chose the materials that they did to build them. While I haven't played a Kubicki X-Factor, I believe that is why he chose a multi-lam neck for his instruments.

 

[bassclef112]

GeneralElectric is correct, especially regarding the various considered solutions builders used/are using to get around this issue.

I have a few basses that have spots in an inconvenient location and respond well to the use of a FatFinger.
Moving them to a place that has much less impact to my playing style makes the bass less annoying and much more useful.

Listening to guys like Stan Jay and Roger Sadowsky (who basically echoes that sentiment) highlights the prevalence of this issue.
In my experience I've found that no matter what technique or materials or design is implemented, you won't know whether it worked until the instrument
is complete. Finding an instrument that really plays each note true with full fundamental and sustain on every string and every fret,
and it does happen, is the dream come true. I know it happens but IMO, way more often than not, it doesn't.

For me most basses are a usually a compromise between all the plusses that you really like and what you are ready live with.

 

[yodedude2]

there was one.

i had a moses graphite headless neck on a fender precision body with abm hardware. it had the normal c on the g string dead spot. quite aggravating; i parted it out.

 

[mech]

I ran an experiment on a neck with a Jazz type peghead that had the traditional 4th to 7th fret, G string, weak note or dead spot. I whittled it down little by little and the dead spot shifted location. It ended up with a small 2 X 2 and no dead spots....anywhere.

Edit: To answer the question...I've played a few headless and none had a dead spot.

 

[LaXu]

there was one.

i had a moses graphite headless neck on a fender precision body with abm hardware. it had the normal c on the g string dead spot. quite aggravating; i parted it out.

How did that work? Did you have to carve a chunk off the body to fit the tuners/bridges?

 

[LaXu]

I ran an experiment on a neck with a Jazz type peghead that had the traditional 4th to 7th fret, G string, weak note or dead spot. I whittled it down little by little and the dead spot shifted location. It ended up with a small 2 X 2 and no dead spots....anywhere.

Edit: To answer the question...I've played a few headless and none had a dead spot.

Did you just shave the headstock down from the back or actually change its shape? I understand that reducing or increasing the mass of the headstock can shift the dead spots. I had a guitar with a dead spot at the 12th fret G string and tried the Fat Finger but on that guitar it simply made it neck heavy and moved the dead spot to around the 9th or 10th fret. So I guess if you want to move dead spots it has to be done with individual weight increase/reduction for each bass.

 

[yodedude2]

How did that work? Did you have to carve a chunk off the body to fit the tuners/bridges?

the bridge fit fine. it was an abm two piece assembly so the bridge was separate. there was a shallow rout cut into the body edge for the tuning knobs, and about half of each knob extended beyond the body. sorry, i do not have any pictures handy.

it balanced nicely and sounded great with passive barts, all of which made the dead spot trebly annoying.

 

[micguy]

Funny, just wriote this in another thread. I picked up (didn't buy, just physically picked up) a headless traveller bass in GC recently. The thing had the worst dead spot I've ever encountered - the open A string. The whole thing shook when you hit that note, but not for long - really fast decay/thud. Never bothered to plug the thing in - stuck it back on the wall.

 

[lz4005]

The theory behind the headless basses was to negate, not eliminate, dead spots on instruments. The working theory is that more mass on the headstock would lower the resonant frequency. Ned Steinberger's solution was to effectively eliminate all extraneous mass from the headstock end of the instrument, thereby raising the resonant frequency and moving the deadspot to higher frets where you wouldn't normally play.
....
The rigidity of the neck and instrument is also a factor, which is why they chose the materials that they did to build them.

Both those things will increase the sympathetic vibration frequency of the neck.
I remember reading an interview with Ned many years ago where he said there were theoretical dead spots on his instruments, but they were so high as to be beyond the 24th fret.

 

[Alan 4Strings]

I own 15 basses (the last one, Status Buzzard 1 is not yet on the pic).

None of these basses have dead spots, even the cheaper ones - except the first one on the left, my Fender P Mike Dirnt, that has the dead spots on all classic positions, plus on the E string, from G to A, and this is really annoying. None of my two headless basses, Status Kingbass and Status S3 have any dead or even weak spots.
I set up all my basses myself with very low action. Strings for all are D'Addario XL nickel rounds, except for the two headless ones - Status Hotwires steel
strings. At one moment my Fender Jazz (MIA) had the classic dead spots, then I put on new strings, taking care that they weren't twisted - the
dead spots disappeared!

 

[Flaked Beans]

 

[mech]

Did you just shave the headstock down from the back or actually change its shape?

I started by sawing off the tip, then trimmed the bottom to be symmetrical, then shortened it more and went 3 & 1 and ended up with a flat top triangle and two on a side. Not the best looking thing in the world but it serves its purpose. I regret selling it several years ago.

 

[_godspeed_]

I noticed 2 dead bodies though...