Jack, I was thinking the same thing... "why did that writing style seem so familiar?".... it's got that real "gee whiz" thing going.
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Double Bass Anyone read the latest "authorized" Ron Carter biography?
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Well, to be fair, that wasn't an actual quote but my paraphrase of how the thing reads although the hyperbole of my paraphrase wasn't that far from the real thing. What I did read of the book did have, as you said, that "Wow, Look What He Did..." character to it.
There are two things that really burn my cookies about it. 1) the advertising for this book made it sound like it was the holy grail of musical biographies--total access and cooperation of Ron Carter and they've been working on it for literally years. It is the new gold standard in musical biographies! And 2) it cost $25 for a paperback book.
Caveat Emptor.
If the thing cost $8 (which is what it should have cost), I'd still think it was a turkey but at $8 who cares. If it had been a nice quality hardback, I'd still think it was awful but it would at least be a quality piece of furniture. But $25 bucks for a self-published, clearly unedited, paperback full of barely arranged press releases and hyperbolic, amateurish writing is a vile rip off and I take great pleasure at trashing it to an audience of bassists who might, as I did, think it was worthy of a nanosecond of your time and $25 out of your pocket. It isn't. Save your money.
I just checked and it is out of print at Artistshare which means the only way to get it is through the used market. It is going for something like a $100 on Amazon. Maybe it will just go away and someday someone with a soupcon more talent will write a proper biography of Ron who deserves way more than what he got here.
mark
I agree with Mark on several points, And know we shouldn't be comparing both books here. I found the book in the header lame.
I found the other one the opposite because: It demonstrates exactly what, why, when and for what reasons three guys changed the approach to rhythm section playing. And for reasons that most people don't even have a clue about.
It also gives credit (finally) to people who were involved in furthering Scott's ideas about what could be done with our instrument in a jazz setting. I was involved with several of these people over the years and everything is right on the mark in Helene's book about her Bro from start to the end.
Ps: As usual. My bet is that many people will still not "get" some of the stuff tucked away in "Jade Visions".
I found the other one the opposite because: It demonstrates exactly what, why, when and for what reasons three guys changed the approach to rhythm section playing. And for reasons that most people don't even have a clue about.
It also gives credit (finally) to people who were involved in furthering Scott's ideas about what could be done with our instrument in a jazz setting. I was involved with several of these people over the years and everything is right on the mark in Helene's book about her Bro from start to the end.
Ps: As usual. My bet is that many people will still not "get" some of the stuff tucked away in "Jade Visions".
"His Mother Called Him Bill" - the biography of Billy Strayhorn.
I'm also diggin' Victor Wooten's "The Music Lesson" currently.
-J
+1 I read Jade Visions thinking to myself, "yep, Paul said that" every couple of pages. Pretty much everything in the book jives with what I've heard from other sources making it very credible. She really did a bang up job and, considering that is her first book, an astounding accomplishment.
mark
I haven't read the Strayhorn bio yet. Thanks for the tip.
The Wooten book changed my life.
mark
+ another.
As some of you know, I'm not as active as I once was here. And when I do come in, I try to stay away from "discussion". This, IMO, is different and I feel it's incumbent on me to be involved.
As Mr. Wooten says in his great book most of us have known this stuff all along on a personal level but it has alluded us due to it's simplicity. He's found a clever way of telling us that we ALL have the simple ability to LET (not make). our music flow, as well as our lives in general. Kenny Werner's fine book has the same vibe but Victor's is easier, quicker and more fun. IMO.
"Musicophillia" completes the vibe on a more scientific bent, as does "Your brain on music".
And Mark, thanks for noticing that I've mentioned some of the stuff in "Jade" for quite some time on these pages. Scott was a force like no other. I am in NO way putting myself into his category, but both of us had much in common in our friends and mentors...from Red Mitchell, Stan Getz, Cal Tjader, Phil Urso, Chet Baker, Bill Evans, Victor Feldman, Vince Guaraldi, Joe Kloess and the great lady pianist Pat Moran (who got me my little time with Bill on her word alone).
I met Scott once when he was with Kenton and heard him again with Chet, Phil, Bobby (Timmons) and Larance (Marable). He was as outrageously great then as he was in the end. This book tells most of it......possibly the most focused individual in the history of jazz.
I figure this book will be talked about alot on TB....might as well do mine now.
As a writer/editor in my "real" job, I found myself unable to finish the Carter bio for all the reasons others have pointed out. Too bad, because there's a great story there to tell.
I have not yet read "Jade Visions" but I will soon. The last book PW recomended, which happened to be Victor's, was absolutely amazing.
So Paul, when can I edit your book?
I have not yet read "Jade Visions" but I will soon. The last book PW recomended, which happened to be Victor's, was absolutely amazing.
So Paul, when can I edit your book?
Hey, Wino.
Actually, I have had offers.
I like you too much to stick you with that kinda responsibility. You would prolly end up in a straight-jacket after the first read.
Mrs. Wino (say hi, as usual) would hafta send out her
BOYZ.
Actually, I have had offers.
I like you too much to stick you with that kinda responsibility. You would prolly end up in a straight-jacket after the first read.
Mrs. Wino (say hi, as usual) would hafta send out her
BOYZ.
Since you brought up Pat Moran, I recently found her albums with Scott. She is/was (is she still around?) an amazing pianist with a bit of an Oscar Peterson kind of vibe. Great time, chops and ideas. The trio album with Scott floored me. He was doing all of the acrobatic stuff that NHOP did with Oscar Peterson but 20 years earlier and on gut strings.
The more I dig into his life and the more music of his I find, the more tragic his early passing becomes. He's primarily known for the Vanguard Evans albums (and they are clearly world shifting albums) but he was so much more.
mark
Like many people, I heard the Evans stuff first, and of course it blew my mind. But I guess I always assumed that it was all he could do, that he didn't really play straight walking time, etc. Most likely because he was just around for such a short time. Then, I heard the Victor Feldman stuff.... and I stood corrected! 
That was a real revelation for me. Every now and then, I like to watch those vids of him pushing the crap out of Richie Kamuka's band on YouTube. Just as a reminder... he had it ALL going on.
I would love to hear the stuff with Pat Moran.
That was a real revelation for me. Every now and then, I like to watch those vids of him pushing the crap out of Richie Kamuka's band on YouTube. Just as a reminder... he had it ALL going on.I would love to hear the stuff with Pat Moran.
Marcus, (and everyone). I don't have time right now, but I think if you Google Pat's name you find at least "This is Pat Moran"....the goof-up was that it has John Doling (Pat's husband at that time) listed on bass. It IS Scotty....you can tell from note one. Pat told me this in about 63 or so. It was a mix up from the record company.
That confused a lot of people who wondered how in hell John could do that. It IS Scott's first record as a soloist in a small setting. It isn't as mature as later stuff but, you can sense what may be coming.
Has been re-issued: Pat Moran: Complete Trio Sessions. [Barcelona? Fresh Sounds Records ca 2007.]
Also includes "Beverly Kelly sings with The Pat Moran Trio" which Pat told me IS John. I'm not clear on that one and I feel that Helene may not be either.
Mark, Pat is alive and well in the Northwest. Pat felt much like Miles did about Oscar. And I ain't gonna quote it.
"This is Pat Moran" AFSD-1874. (Audio Fidelity.) For SURE is Scotty.
Good luck.
That confused a lot of people who wondered how in hell John could do that. It IS Scott's first record as a soloist in a small setting. It isn't as mature as later stuff but, you can sense what may be coming.
Has been re-issued: Pat Moran: Complete Trio Sessions. [Barcelona? Fresh Sounds Records ca 2007.]
Also includes "Beverly Kelly sings with The Pat Moran Trio" which Pat told me IS John. I'm not clear on that one and I feel that Helene may not be either.
Mark, Pat is alive and well in the Northwest. Pat felt much like Miles did about Oscar. And I ain't gonna quote it.
"This is Pat Moran" AFSD-1874. (Audio Fidelity.) For SURE is Scotty.
Good luck.
Teamwork! Beauty....
Apologies to our OP.....sorry for the OT. No disrespect to Mr. Carter at ALL. We all know his is more than great.
He, Herbie and Tony did SO much to help us do what we try to do today.
Pat Moran was a guest on Marian McPartland's (another old friend...god, I love name droppin'. We did a piano-bass duo concert series on some Indian Reservations back in the 80's. What a giggle).
PBS Piano Jazz series. You prolly can archive it through PBS.
Apologies to our OP.....sorry for the OT. No disrespect to Mr. Carter at ALL. We all know his is more than great.
He, Herbie and Tony did SO much to help us do what we try to do today.
Pat Moran was a guest on Marian McPartland's (another old friend...god, I love name droppin'. We did a piano-bass duo concert series on some Indian Reservations back in the 80's. What a giggle).
PBS Piano Jazz series. You prolly can archive it through PBS.
thanks to you guys, i just pulled the trigger on my own copy of the Music Lesson and Jade Visions.
I'm also waiting for a copy of Bassically Speaking, an autobiography of George Duvivier. One of my mentors highly recommended it and I only found copies on amazon for about 70 bucks. The library has one though. so I requested it.
cheers
Kev
I'm also waiting for a copy of Bassically Speaking, an autobiography of George Duvivier. One of my mentors highly recommended it and I only found copies on amazon for about 70 bucks. The library has one though. so I requested it.
cheers
Kev
Man...I cannot wait to read this book. You guys, (Mark & Pee Dub) are not prone to hype stuff so I'm pretty sure it is going to be one inspiring read.
Marcus, it has been my experience that to be good enough to solo even at a competent level, a bassist had better have a real good internal clock and a strong sense of swing. I know a few guys that are great section players however they are not very interesting and/or competent soloists. I don't know any bassists that are great soloists that are bad section players. That's why I have always been a bit puzzled when someone says of Scotty, "yeah but can he swing, can he walk?" Man, how could he do what he did if he couldn't swing?
Marcus, it has been my experience that to be good enough to solo even at a competent level, a bassist had better have a real good internal clock and a strong sense of swing. I know a few guys that are great section players however they are not very interesting and/or competent soloists. I don't know any bassists that are great soloists that are bad section players. That's why I have always been a bit puzzled when someone says of Scotty, "yeah but can he swing, can he walk?" Man, how could he do what he did if he couldn't swing?
In Medford, Oregon to be exact. Here locally she's known by her married name, Patti McCoy. Unfortunately, she almost never plays out on what passes for a local "scene", preferring to perform at her church. She's a nice lady, with some great stories.....
Sorry for the derail. Carry on.
Jim
The same deal as all the other Messiahs and Angels.......won't mention any names, but they always open the door and light the way for everyone who has the desire to see ahead and explore the wholeness of being. Science, Art, Music, Math, ect.
Man, how could he do what he did if he couldn't swing?
If you can hear and feel it swing.....that takes care of the intention.
If you can hear and feel the tonic in the chord, why do you have to keep playing it over and over again?
If this makes you curious.....read the book.
Great point, Trey.
OK.....way off topic now....... Probably best to get back on topic, or start a new thread for "Jade Visions"..........
Saying that, I'll continue. I love Scotty's contributions as much as anyone, but I remember reading some less than flattering comments about his lifestyle and views of his fellow human beings. Was any of that printed in "Jade Visions"?
Scotty was 25 years old when he passed. Considering the voraciousness with which he absorbed musical knowledge, and the way in which he applied these things to his art and music, it's not hard to consider that there could have been gaps in his development as a person.
The musical masters feet are made of clay, after all.
Back on topic, No I haven't read the Ron Carter book.
