I believe that I am quoting someone that you are ignoring and therefore you cannot see the quote. My next post is also quoting someone.
Last edited:
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
I cannot think of a productive way to answer your questions. It is apparent to me that we see things very differently.
Ps .. it's very rare for me to be so absolutist about anything, especially musical tool choices, but my god have the class D amps been drastically and impressively disappointing to my ears.
Remember when everyone loved SWR, and then one day everyone woke up and realized that baked in "modern" tone actually sucked? That's what's gonna happen with most class D amps. Mark my words.
Remember when everyone loved SWR, and then one day everyone woke up and realized that baked in "modern" tone actually sucked? That's what's gonna happen with most class D amps. Mark my words.
You're welcome to be dismissive of my taste and hearing, but my Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.2 is a wonderful sounding amp. Therefore I am dismissive of your stated opinion; IMO the Genz-Benz amps do not suck.
But hey, I've only been playing amplified music since around 1966, so perhaps I've never heard better amps.
I've not played a shuttle, but have heard them numerous times live. Always sounded so sterile while trying to emulate being "tubey". Kinda how multi effects digital pedals sound like they are trying to be a good analog effect, but arent.
I am wondering if some people are attributing the tone and voicing of the preamp as a basis of their opinion of what a class D amp sounds like. It seems to me that it would be difficult to tell unless you are using separate preamps and power amps.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,771
- 40,448
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
Interesting thread - I prefer well-executed designs that strike a good balance between size, weight, features, reliability and tone/voicing at performance volume. Depending on the tone/voicing I want, all tube, class A/B (or G, H variations) or class D schemes can all get to a sweet spot that works for me. At the end of the day, we certainly have more class D options today that offer high marks in every category including impressive tone/voicing at volume.
People really shouldn't look inside the box. It only taints their bias
If you see a part that happens to be used by another manufacturer, it does not mean it's used exactly the same and has the same performance. Ask Intel.
On the other hand, if you don't see a common part, it doesn't mean it can't perform as well. Ask AMD
If you see a part that happens to be used by another manufacturer, it does not mean it's used exactly the same and has the same performance. Ask Intel.
On the other hand, if you don't see a common part, it doesn't mean it can't perform as well. Ask AMD
Well folks can say what they want to about micros, and I certainly have noticed the differences between the big stuff and them. But one thing I've noticed about the micro amps vs the big stuff is that when they have preamps of equal quality, going to the board with the preamps sounds as good in the PA with either. Or as bad, depending on your tastes 
funny - person on the web with a contrary opinion expressing that opinion in emphatic, crude or simplistic terms as if all others should see the clarity of his wisdom.
and fwiw, I never taken by the SWR "modern" tone.
as another famous TB member is known to say from time to time ... baba booey
Last edited:
If you're trying to be dismissively sarcastic, you need to work on the delivery.
Im being none of those things except simplistic, because class D is simply the worst sounding trend I've heard. I'm sorry. The convenience is just not worth it.
I've tried for a long time to be diplomatic in my assessment, and self critical in that maybe I'm missing something... but ive given these things years of chances now and sat thru so many sterile sounding sets of bass lifelessness that someone needs to finally cut the crap and just simply say "guys, this really isnt a good compromise" and hopefully soon this will go away.
I admit when I'm wrong.... in fact I've recently realized I too quickly judged the v4b reissue, but no matter how many class D amps I hear I'm constantly just dismayed.
Sorry guys. Hate me if you want. I appreciate the engineering work involved just as I appreciate the convenience of microwaves. But when it comes down to it, I dont microwave good food. I cook with flame and I taste the difference. Keep eating your microwave popcorn tones if ya want... I'll be licking my fingers over here.
Flame on if ya want... here's some popcorn.
Im being none of those things except simplistic, because class D is simply the worst sounding trend I've heard. I'm sorry. The convenience is just not worth it.
I've tried for a long time to be diplomatic in my assessment, and self critical in that maybe I'm missing something... but ive given these things years of chances now and sat thru so many sterile sounding sets of bass lifelessness that someone needs to finally cut the crap and just simply say "guys, this really isnt a good compromise" and hopefully soon this will go away.
I admit when I'm wrong.... in fact I've recently realized I too quickly judged the v4b reissue, but no matter how many class D amps I hear I'm constantly just dismayed.
Sorry guys. Hate me if you want. I appreciate the engineering work involved just as I appreciate the convenience of microwaves. But when it comes down to it, I dont microwave good food. I cook with flame and I taste the difference. Keep eating your microwave popcorn tones if ya want... I'll be licking my fingers over here.
Flame on if ya want... here's some popcorn.
Last edited:
you seemed to understand me just fine.
what do they say about opinions and .... , you know, every one has one. but you seem to think your unsubstantiated opinion is absolutely correct.
I also think my "unsubstantiated opinion " that tacobell sucks is correct as well, but if you prefer getting the runs, eat up.
Thanks, that explains a lot. Maybe un-ignore is better, and I can just pass when I see the avatar.
Edit: And sure enough, un-ignore, and there are the missing quotes.
Last edited:
okcrum
in your chest
Actually, it makes it a unicorn. The B500 is a class AB1 power amp like all "lead sleds" and almost (if not all) tube amps.
It's probably a good time, given the number of people who listen to amps with their eyes, to dispel the "class A" marketing rot.
ALL preamps are class A, and always have been. There's no distinction just because you bias the stage hotter; it's still class A. Specialized circuits used in dirt (distortion) channels are the exception.
The number of brands of class A power amps (outside of the audiophile market) in MI use can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and they're custom amps that live in studios.
Last edited:
You mention that you "hear" class D that is sterile sounding and terrible, across the board. How many class D amps have you owned or spent a significant amount of time working through....Multiple long sessions, over prolonged periods of time?
I would be interested to put you up to a blindfolded challenge of amplifier recognition, from all over the board. I would wager a fire cooked taco Bell $5 box if you labeled every style of amplifier correctly.
Wear your opinion proudly, but to claim that all class D amps sound terrible from an objective perspective....Is very TB of you.
My experience comes from 10+ years of gigging in all environments with a range of heads. I'm not going to say the micros sound 'worse', but the heads I've tried certainly seem to have a common characteristic that doesn't ring my bell.
im also an avid user of genz benz. ive had a shuttle 6.0-12T for roughly 8 years (I think) and I honestly feel sorry for anyone that hasn't had a chance to play with one. if you don't like it, that's cool, but I love it. if im playing in a large venue or with a super loud drummer, I just plug in my 410 cab and it gets even louder with the tone still intact. if the preamp isn't your flavor you can always just run a different preamp and still have the amazing convenience of the lightweight factor. its gonna be a long time before I need to look at another amp for my needs. class d all the way in my opinion, just find one you like.
