My work puts me in contact with many pro-sound mixers. At least a few of them believe that AB still sounds better. However they work with what they're given by the people who spec and pay for the systems. A guy whose preference is Adamson/Digico may get told that for the next 3 months he's working with Venue and Vertec and class D's because of the huge difference in weight (less $$) outweighs (Hyuk!) a small difference in sound.
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My work puts me in contact with many pro-sound mixers. At least a few of them believe that AB still sounds better. However they work with what they're given by the people who spec and pay for the systems. A guy whose preference is Adamson/Digico may get told that for the next 3 months he's working with Venue and Vertec and class D's because of the huge difference in weight (less $$) outweighs (Hyuk!) a small difference in sound.
I liked mine when I had one
But I do like the 4 Pro better.
Yet another troll thread. . Good music cares not which amp topology/technology is used to successfully reproduce it. .
Congratulations having no clue what troll means. Thank god we have you around to denounce 8 pages of quality discussion.
Tried tons of class D, none have the total package that my GK 700rb2 does. Nothing against class D, but I'm not switching just to save a few pounds. Although there are several TB members who value weight over sound quality, I think most of us go with tonal preference regardless of weight. I do find it interesting that when I see a live band locally the bass player almost always uses a lead sled or tube amp.
Is that what you told people when people were still buying VCR's after DVD came out?
The question is legit.
A question for agedhorse or anyone who has designed class d amplification would be: What are the design compromises with class d? For example, cost of materials and weight would create some design constraints. If people buy class d because they are demanding lightweight amps, does that create constraints on the power supply size and weight, resulting in greater amounts of unwanted high frequency noise on switchmode supplies, or higher output ripple, and does that carry through to distortion on the output of the amp? Are there cost and size constraints on the output low pass filter, such as the size of inductors?
I guess what Im asking is what other variables are in the design that people may conflate with differences in the amp topology. Im always impressed with how compact class d amps can be, but I always wonder if that compactness and lightness has come with a tradeoff.
I guess what Im asking is what other variables are in the design that people may conflate with differences in the amp topology. Im always impressed with how compact class d amps can be, but I always wonder if that compactness and lightness has come with a tradeoff.
The majority of amps I'm seeing at smaller live venues is class d amps. More specifically stuff like Markbass lm2, ampeg portaflex, Traynor small blocks and GK Fusion.
Just my personal experience. Is there a correct answer? Everybody likes different gear. Personally I love the Aguilar Tonehammer and the Traynor small block stuff.
Just my personal experience. Is there a correct answer? Everybody likes different gear. Personally I love the Aguilar Tonehammer and the Traynor small block stuff.
I don't think it's weight over sound quality at all. I have a GK 700 and it sits in the rehearsal space. For gigs I use a GK Fusion 800 or a Magellan 800. Most people that I see play are using Class D amps. Maybe different areas / different genres.
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Good question. Designed right, class AB and class D can be pretty much identical in performance for all practical purposes. What is different is the amount of effort and specialty engineering required to design (and manufacture) a really good class D amp, one with good performance, good reliability, good EMC, etc. If you can get all of that right, there can be a 10 to 1 weight and size savings by going with class D. The cost is not much different, (except for the transformer and filter caps in a line frequency power supply) overall, especially once the development costs are factored in. The benefits are great to the customer... things like class D (w/ SMPS) savings size, weight, heat, lower power consumption per watt of audio delivered, and the ability to make the power supply self-selecting universal world-wide.
So, if you don't care about any of the benefits class D brings, then there's no reason why to chose one over the other.
Also, most of the differences in tone are generally attributed to the preamp, and how the amp is specifically voiced. I have built identical amps (except with class AB and class D power amp) and it was pretty much impossible to tell which was which. The key to this is identical preamps.
I don't know what all this class A/B or D class amp discussion is all about.
So I went and checked what to see what my 13 year old Carvin B500 amp is.
It's a class A.
I suppose that makes it inferior.
When I bought it,I didn't do a diligent search and comparison of all available types of amps.
I didn't know anything about A/B or D or whatever class amps.
Some have a definite idea of what they are looking for in an amp.
I didn't.
I didn't have the time and/or patience to that.
I bought it because it was an amp,had 500 watts and it worked.
And in the final analysis that's what counts.
So I went and checked what to see what my 13 year old Carvin B500 amp is.
It's a class A.
I suppose that makes it inferior.
When I bought it,I didn't do a diligent search and comparison of all available types of amps.
I didn't know anything about A/B or D or whatever class amps.
Some have a definite idea of what they are looking for in an amp.
I didn't.
I didn't have the time and/or patience to that.
I bought it because it was an amp,had 500 watts and it worked.
And in the final analysis that's what counts.
Another question for agedhorse, since you've been so kind as to educate us: You've commented in the past on the importance of designing bass amps to manage clipping behavior. In Class-D amps, how much of that is designed into the power amp circuit itself, and how much is in the processing of the signal before it's fed to the power amp? In all of the circuits that I've seen (granted, not exhaustive), there's always something in the signal chain to manage clipping, ranging from limiters to "soft clipping" circuits.
This is the one question that can't be asked. In all the years since I've followed bass gear, I've never seen a case where a question about tone quality (differences, or lack thereof), was settled to everybody's satisfaction by a technical answer.
Instead, all we have is anecdotal evidence, and an unspoken rule of civility, that we take each bassist's personal experience at face value. Despite my own preference for being guided by a technical understanding of bass gear, I don't object to this rule because it creates space for more interesting discussions and a variety of approaches.
Totally agree on the technical approach. There should not be a dichotomy between the artistic approach and the scientific approach. We create art with tools and physical mediums (in this case, sound) and an understanding of how your tools operate will only benefit you. Sometimes that means believing physical measurements over what your ears want to hear.
If you were going for some sort of prize for insensitive comment of the day, I would say you win.
Ouch! I didn't mean to flame the OP. But I did flame someone obviously, so I guess that's deserved.
OOC, which are the Class D amps you are referring to, which were unable to match your GK?
