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Double Bass Anyone tried a Shure Beta 98

G

gregreadling

Jul 19, 2006
11
0
Raleigh, NC
#1
I am, as well, on the quest for a small mic to use in live situations and mounted on the bass. I play in a bluegrass band (no drums) that uses one large condenser for vocals and instruments but we've found we need an extra mic for the bass. I do not have a pickup. My question is--does anyone have experience using the Shure Beta 98 (a very small hypercardioid condenser mic typically used on toms). I did a recorded comparison between the Beta 98, SM58, SM57, Audix D2 (also a tom mic), and Sennheiser MD421 all recorded between the bridge feet, at the f-hole, and in the tailpiece area. The 98 between the bridge (centered between the strings and the top and the bridge and the end of the fingerboard) won for me.
Thanks for any input,
Greg Readling
 
#2
Hey, I'm on the same quest, in a way, and play often times in a similiar situation (one mic, bluegrass...). I've heard so much about the beyer 88 and am thinking that's the way to go, but would love to hear a recording of the shure and other mics you tested!
 
#3
I have one. I used it blended with a pickup for about a year, then switched to using dynamic mics. If I am in a really tight bandstand and I don't have room for a mic stand, I'll go back to the little clip-on Beta 98.

I clipped mine to the tip of the bridge and pointed it back at the bass toward the bridge leg on the soundpost side. I use a Solstice blender, so the Beta 98 is one condenser that works with lower than 48v phatom power voltage (the Solstice has 18v).
 
#4
bdowd said:
Hey, I'm on the same quest, in a way, and play often times in a similiar situation (one mic, bluegrass...). I've heard so much about the beyer 88 and am thinking that's the way to go, but would love to hear a recording of the shure and other mics you tested!
Click to expand...

If I have time, I may be able to post a comparison between the Beta 98 and Beyer M88. But...

A bass alone in a room will probably sound nicer with a condenser. Though keep in mind, what makes a good recording mic is different than what makes a good live sound mic. It really goes back to the dynamics vs condensers thing. I prefer dynamics for live (I use the Beyer M88), and condensers for recording (I use an Earthworks TC20). If I had to pick one mic to do both, I'd probably pick my EV RE20; but there are a couple of higher-end dynamic mics I have yet to try including the Sennheiser MD421 and the Shure SM7b which are both supposed to be very good.
 
#6
Greg, you should use the 'Search' function and track down the major thread we had on this 6-12 months ago.

It has pix and audio samples of various approaches, especially that used by Chris Fitzgerald.

My wife & I both play bluegrass bass and we have found that the bass works really well with a 57 or Beta 57 suspended in the afterlength with the mic almost touching the top between the feet of the bridge.

The proximity effect which is so annoying on the acoustic guitar helps fatten up the bass. The mic rejects other instruments really well when used this way, and you're free to move up to the big mic to sing or whatever.

Jake
 
#8
gregreadling said:
Hi Larry, what have you found to be the ideal mic placement for the Beyer 88? Do you think it could be used without a mic stand (attached to the bass somehow) and sound up to its potential, i.e. better than the beta 98?
Thanks,
Greg
Click to expand...

I put it on a stand, pointing around the bridge.

You only get the best performance by aiming (any) mic at the bass (unless it's an omni pattern, which you'd probably not be using for live sound). If it's too close, you'll get some nasty proximity effect (boominess). The Beyer has a very tight pickup pattern (one of the reasons it works so well), which also creates a side-effect of having a lot of proximity effect. I doubt you would like this mic if it were mounted on the bass, but it works very well on a stand out of proximity effect range.

If using a mic on a stand is not for you, I'd find a different dynamic or stick with a small condenser.
 
#9
Jake deVilliers said:
Greg, you should use the 'Search' function and track down the major thread we had on this 6-12 months ago.

It has pix and audio samples of various approaches, especially that used by Chris Fitzgerald.



Jake
Click to expand...

I really enjoyed following that thread, and I got some really good ideas regarding mounting the mic. I tried it, like it, don't love it, found the live sound to be ok, loved the sound much better with an ev re20 on a stand, but I already have a nice condenser (at 4030) for recording, so I'm looking for a smaller dynamic to do a stand mount thing (I want to be able to pull away from the mic when I bow, those dang spirocores are so twangy!).
I am going to check out that sennheiser mic, however, I'm curious about that one.
 
#10
Electrovoice made some small dynamic mics, including some small cardiods that are known for having very little proximity effect and great off-axis performance. I'd like to hunt some down and give them a try (especially the RE15), since they are probably small and light enough to mount on the bass. I have an EV 635a, but it's omni and feeds back too easily for live sound use.

Here's a very cool link to some mic history:
http://www.coutant.org/contents.html
 
#12
Out of respect for the upcoming holiday, here's a zombie thread.

Context: I am on a quest for a mic for my upright. I am currently using the Gage Realist, am early in the research process for a mic, and the Beta 98 is a top contender.

Does anyone have experience with the Beta 98 in louder settings? I'm playing in an electric improv project and want to send the mic it FOH. I'm concerned with feedback and bleed. Most of the players I've seen use these are in unamplified settings like bluegrass.
 
#13
There are definitely simple solutions that have worked well. Both the EV RE 20 and the Shure Beta 98 will reproduce the instrument well. Among the choices
discussed the Beyer 88 is lighter and easier to negotiate than the Electrovoice RE 20. I’m a confirmed Remic Red 5400 and Remic Green 5400 LB advocate.
The easily mount on the bass in several different positions and placements. Their economy model the DB 540 is a less expensive alternative. Just my take.
 
#15
thombo said:
Out of respect for the upcoming holiday, here's a zombie thread.

Context: I am on a quest for a mic for my upright. I am currently using the Gage Realist, am early in the research process for a mic, and the Beta 98 is a top contender.

Does anyone have experience with the Beta 98 in louder settings? I'm playing in an electric improv project and want to send the mic it FOH. I'm concerned with feedback and bleed. Most of the players I've seen use these are in unamplified settings like bluegrass.
Click to expand...


If you have a Beta 98 handy, I think it will work in bluegrass settings. IMHO it's very challenging to use a mic on upright in louder settings.

I have used variants of the Beta 98 on horns and drums, and they were decent sounding mics. The clips for the 98H were very fragile. I don't know if this has been rectified. To my eyes the current clips look the same.

For the money I think the DPA4099 is probably the best clip-on mic. 4099 Instrument Condenser Microphone (dpamicrophones.com) Have not used them.

I think the ATM350A may sound slightly more natural but the DPA4099 has better isolation. In a live sound environment, isolation is critical. Invalid Link Removed

I can't really justify the cost of the DPA, so I bought several used ATM350A and various accessories...haven't used these either. I intended to use these with horns and piano.

Neumann has a new clip-on mic system for bass that is in the same price range as the DPA and also has a similar clip/mount. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If you can spend a bit more, I would also suggest considering The Chuck Israels signature microphone – Xlson audio @rickwolff has posted lot's of videos on this mic.

Of course the ultimate appears to be a Schoeps supercardioid, such as an Mk41 on a CMC6 body or a CCM41: Home | SCHOEPS Microphones

If you are going to use a mic on a stand, I suggest using an sE Electronics Reflexion Filter such as the RF PRO - sE Electronics If I were going to be mic'ing upright in a live situation on a regular basis, I would definitely get one of these.

As a player, I think a mic is virtually useless without a lot of extra work and the ability to impose certain controls over the situation. A contact pickup is not perfect, but IMHO it good enough for live performance and way easier to get a usable sound.

The best sounding pickup I have experience with is the EAP System - Ehrlund Microphones . It's not the best choice for every bass and positioning is critical. A bit of experimentation is required to find the best position and amount of mounting putty to use.

The last pickup I used for an extended time was the original Realist. I bowed about 50% of the time and IMHO the Realist works well with the bow and does not require a lot of corrective EQ. The pizz sound could be a bit better. IMHO the Realist tends to emphasize body rumble a bit too much, which I think degrades the pizz sound.
 
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