Anyone using flame birch?

[Allegrus]

I got access to lots of flame birch but it's pretty heavy stuff. I don't see it being promoted or talked about much for guitarmaking. I'm thinking of using it as the body top, laminated to some much lighter basswood.

Anyone out there tried using this wood? it's too nice to look at to ignore.

 

[Beej]

It can be lovely stuff, no reason not to use it. What makes it heavy? Is it still green? Birch (paper) tends to be around the same as maple.

 

[Allegrus]

It shouldn't be green ... It's been in my shop for years now. Maybe I'm just perceiving the weight of it as heavy. I can say it takes staining like a champ though. Want to try some fade to black from the edge to the center.

 

[dwizum]

Let's see some pics!

I've seen curly birch at a local lumberyard a bunch of times but I've never tried it. Always curious though...

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Mike Lipe and I made an experimental run of six guitar necks from birch, about ten years ago. Real pretty straight grain birch, properly dried, careful grain alignment, careful neck construction technique. All six necks failed in the field and got scrapped. They all warped and twisted and were too unstable. An expensive learning experience. No more birch after that.

I hate to think what curly birch would be like.

It's probably okay as a thin body top.

 

[buldog5151bass]

When I worked with it it seemed to be a cross between ash and maple. It tends to be in the same weight range, and makes good baseball bats. I made some from flame birch - no structural issues.

FWIW

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Look up BigD guitars on YouTube. He just did a birch top and back on his great guitar build off guitar. It came out really nice.

 

[hawk400]

Derek Lenard used it for his guitar build off thingy

 

[Fender_Bender]

No reason not to use it for a drop top. As Bruce said it’s not a great neck wood. If the figure is great it would be great for furniture and jewelry boxes etc.

 

[dwizum]

Mike Lipe and I made an experimental run of six guitar necks from birch, about ten years ago. Real pretty straight grain birch, properly dried, careful grain alignment, careful neck construction technique. All six necks failed in the field and got scrapped. They all warped and twisted and were too unstable. An expensive learning experience. No more birch after that.

I hate to think what curly birch would be like.

It's probably okay as a thin body top.

Bruce - what were the failures like? Did it just move too much?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I've used Masser Birch, great looking for tops. And to me a good bit less dense than Maple.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Bruce - what were the failures like? Did it just move too much?

The necks warped and twisted beyond the point of being useable. Three of them were finished and went out to customers; Mike had to take them back and make up new maple necks for them. The other three were sitting here in stock, and within about 3 months, they were scrap too. All six were a complete loss. It was a very disappointing experience.

 

[AK4570]

The paper birch I am familiar with is famous for its desire to become pretzelated (new woodworking word right there...) whilst drying. That being said, thicker planks, once allowed to dry and assume their twisted, warped, and deeply split final shapes, can and have been hewn into roughly bass-shaped objects.

This 2-piece blank--even after some limited chambering--came in at 11+ pounds. The weight was remediated by judicious thinning (1 1/5") and lots of hoping. The finished bass came in just shy of 10lbs so, like has been previously said, within the range of maple.

Best regards,
John

 

[Allegrus]

I read the advice, had a think about it and figured I would take a shot at a build. This has a 3/4" flame birch top on a mahogany body. Neck is also 5 piece laminated mahogany with a center laminate maple stripe and rosewood fretboard. I'm pretty thrilled about how it came out actually. The top is not a flame birch slab. It's a lamination of strips about 1" wide of the best looking figured pieces I had. It's dyed with a dark brown aniline dye, sanded back, burnished to close the grain, then dyed again with a red. I find the burnishing step gives better separation between the flames.

It's finished with a few coats of Tru-oil; just enough to fill and smooth over the 'curl' areas of the top.

 

[Beej]

I read the advice, had a think about it and figured I would take a shot at a build. This has a 3/4" flame birch top on a mahogany body. Neck is also 5 piece laminated mahogany with a center laminate maple stripe and rosewood fretboard. I'm pretty thrilled about how it came out actually. The top is not a flame birch slab. It's a lamination of strips about 1" wide of the best looking figured pieces I had. It's dyed with a dark brown aniline dye, sanded back, burnished to close the grain, then dyed again with a red. I find the burnishing step gives better separation between the flames.

It's finished with a few coats of Tru-oil; just enough to fill and smooth over the 'curl' areas of the top.

View attachment 4177461

Dude that is insane! I had to look closely to see the strips. Very cool!

 

[dwizum]

Well done on piecing the strips together! That looks really great.

How did that staining technique hold up in terms of the liveliness of the figure? I've had problems putting color on figured wood in that it tends to emphasize the figure but also "freeze" it.

 

[Slidlow]

All flames, curls, quilts and burls are good for tops at the very least. Depending on weight and toughness (not too easy to dent) I would consider anything for bodies that gives a desirable look. Necks are another thing though I have used curly maple in laminated necks.

 

[Allegrus]

Well done on piecing the strips together! That looks really great.

How did that staining technique hold up in terms of the liveliness of the figure? I've had problems putting color on figured wood in that it tends to emphasize the figure but also "freeze" it.

I'm pleased with the appearance and the figure movement. I can't claim that's a result of my technique for finishing though. I know the problem you speak of and with tight curly maple, that problem is significant. I think flame birch is way more forgiving there.

In my test piece, the figure movement is so significant, that I can actually get the dark areas to almost disappear and blend in. It's very dramatic. I think I'm on to something with burnishing the wood between the two dye applications. There is a noticeable visual difference with how the wood absorbs the stain. I think this difference in absorption is what maintains the separation. My theory there being that the curly areas take up stain in a significantly different way than the non-curly after burnishing. I'm going to try to transfer that to curly maple.

 

[dwizum]

Yeah that makes sense - I think the problem is the curly figure exposes open pores in some areas of the flame but not in others. I wonder if burnishing helps close the open pores, or open the closed ones, or something like that...