Double Bass Anyone using Flat Chromesteel E

[Jeremy Allen]

Ditto to everything Chasarms says. One of the main reasons I tried these was because of the same complaint about the weirdness of the Spiro up around the octave on the D string; FCS has solved that problem completely.

I have a feeling that if I had the string height where it wants to be for the Spiro mittel G, the FCS D and A would feel a little unmanageably stiff for my taste (so I have my bridge at a height that's good for the bottom three strings but slightly too low for the G). So perhaps a higher tension Stark would, indeed, make a good match.

But it seems unlikely; if the volume differential between Stark and mittel is the same as that between mittel and weich, then the high tension Spiros must be wickedly loud and difficult to find a match for.

 

[anonymous0726]

I have Spiros on the bottom two and Flatchromes on the top. Good tension match. The juryis still out, though. I've had Spirocore Solos on for about a year and a half, so I'm still adjusting to the feel and touch.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I have Spiros on the bottom two and Flatchromes on the top. Good tension match.

What gauge of Spiro?

One of the main reasons I tried these was because of the same complaint about the weirdness of the Spiro up around the octave on the D string; FCS has solved that problem completely.

That's what impressed me about the ones that Nnick had on his Bbass - there was no "twang" at all. Yowsah!

I have a feeling that if I had the string height where it wants to be for the Spiro mittel G, the FCS D and A would feel a little unmanageably stiff for my taste (so I have my bridge at a height that's good for the bottom three strings but slightly too low for the G). So perhaps a higher tension Stark would, indeed, make a good match.

But it seems unlikely; if the volume differential between Stark and mittel is the same as that between mittel and weich, then the high tension Spiros must be wickedly loud and difficult to find a match for.

But this might work out well, since for some reason, my D string on the LaScala seems louder than the rest anyway. If the Flatchrome D was in the ballpark and sounded good, I could always go back to Nnick again for more bridgework. He already knnows I'm a picky basstid.

Almost anything is going to be soft compared to the starks, but these are not overly flabby.

They are probably as bright (but not banjo-like out of the pack) as Spirocores, but good or bad, there is much less of that toothy growl in the midtone.

The only place I really NEED that growl is on the E - I'm married to the Stark E for life. But the other descriptions sound very promising. FWIW, on the tension issue, the Oblis felt ridiculously light, which I kinda dug while playing and recording alone, but which I absouletly hated the moment I was playing with anybody else.

Oh, and on the bow thing: assuming I live long enough, I plan to make Bach and arco my retirement plan. That and gardening should do it!

Chris, I might recommed a Dominant D to you. I think you will find the tension to be similar to the Stark, but it is a darker souding string. Quite a bit smoother than Spirocores with none of that twangy sound you sometimes get.

Francois made a similar comment a while ago, and intimated that the tension on the Dominants might be equal to or even greater than the Starks - something I never thought possible. I guess my question would be, how much sustain would I be giving up with a dominant as compared to a Flatchrome?

Thanks for all the input, guys....I love this place!

 

[anonymous0726]

Regular Spiros.

The tension on Dominants is wierd compared to Spiros, as in that in certain ways they are just stiffer, but in certain ways the sound is in kinda of a 'warm' feeling spot. That second bit is really hard to describe, but it's like inside of the stiff feel there is an Obligato-like feel or something. One thing about the Doms is that you can't overplay them. The harder you pull, the louder they get.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Regular Spiros.

The tension on Dominants is wierd compared to Spiros, as in that in certain ways they are just stiffer, but in certain ways the sound is in kinda of a 'warm' feeling spot. That second bit is really hard to describe, but it's like inside of the stiff feel there is an Obligato-like feel or something. One thing about the Doms is that you can't overplay them. The harder you pull, the louder they get.

I like the sound of this last part. What is the thickness like on the dominants as compared to Spiro Mittels? The Starks are pretty hefty.

 

[AMJBASS]

The Dominants are pretty much the same gauge as the Spirocore Stark. I also don't think you loose much sustain with them. It wouldn't be difficult to adjust with these IMO.

 

[Chasarms]

I'm not saying Dominants are particularly stiff, but I find it odd that they come packaged in a 66" mailing tube.

 

[anonymous0726]

Be careful when you unwind them that they don't smack you in the face. I did this with the first one!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I wonder if there's a chart somewhere comparing the stiffness/tension of bass strings. I thought that Starks were about the stiffest thing out there, but that now you guys are telling me that I'll have to go to a blacksmith to hammer a bend in the Dominants where they're supposed to cross the bridge, I wonder. Does anybody know of such a tension chart? Francois? Bueller?

 

[jneuman]

I wonder if there's a chart somewhere comparing the stiffness/tension of bass strings. I thought that Starks were about the stiffest thing out there, but that now you guys are telling me that I'll have to go to a blacksmith to hammer a bend in the Dominants where they're supposed to cross the bridge, I wonder. Does anybody know of such a tension chart? Francois? Bueller?

Chris

The closest thing I have found is that tension chart compiled by Dr. Johnson on Bob G's site. Basically what's measured there isn't so much the tension, but the compliance of the strings for lack of a better term, or how much force is required to displace them some distance when at pitch. This is the effective tension I guess or the flexibility. One test I think would be good and more relelvant is the force required to stop a given string at some standard distance above the fingerboard. This should be very easy to measure with the proper guage ( I don't know what this type of guage is called but I know that they exist). The big problem with Dominants, is that even though the tension is like Spirocore Weich, they are so rigid, that they feel like much higher tension strings. Thomastik would be well served to offer a lower tension version of these strings that feel say like Spirocore Mittel, or lose all of their market share to Obligato. Dominants sound great but they feel horrible IMO.

Jon

 

[AMJBASS]

The Dominants are unique strings. I think they feel a lot higher tension than they are. I think they feel nice, especially for walking. They have some give to them, and you can really dig in. They also have a big tone. My teacher Pat Collins recently switched to all Dominants and he really likes they way they sound on his bass.

 

[Chasarms]

. . . Thomastik would be well served to offer a lower tension version of these strings that feel say like Spirocore Mittel, or lose all of their market share to Obligato. Dominants sound great but they feel horrible IMO . . .

The Dominant solo tuned orch matches your description pretty well. I played Dominant Solos for a long time on my Swingmaster. My issue with them is that two of them broke at the peg box in less than 6 months.

My teacher has a crate of strings and swaps them more often than my uncle changes wives. He had orch Dominants D,G on his solo/teaching bass for a while.

Just to match what Ray said about pulling them, the same goes for the bow. They will wake up under a light bow, but you can lay into them with all your might and they just get louder.

I think the Dominant is designed for use by orchestra bassists. Thomastik markets a string for the complete family of orchestra strings under this name. I have played with a couple of violinists who use Dominants.

While the Dominant is alike in design with the Obligato, tonally I find them to be much different. The Dominant is a much darker string and bows much, much better than the Obligato. The stiffness actually helps. The pizz doesn't have the brightness and color of the Obligato.

 

[Francois Blais]

Canadian bassist Dave Young also plays a full Dominant set, AFAIK.

About the tension thing:
Tension and stiffness are two different things, so comparing tensions between string sets is not the solution.
Some strings feel stiffer, even if they are lower tension than other strings.
Solid-core steel strings like Red Labels feel very stiff.
Pirastro Chromcor is another solid-core string, with a great percussive bounce.
Jargars have a rope-core, but are loaded with dampening stuff, which makes them stiffer.
Dominants are indeed very stiff.

They are available in solo tuning though, so that may be an alternative for some people who like their tone and feel but find them too stiff.

 

[AMJBASS]

Dave Young plays Spirocore Orch. I have never seen him play Dominants before(and I have seen Dave several times).

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Thanks for the info guys, and sorry for the hijack! If anyone wants I'll be happy to split the thread itno two threads - one about Flat Chromesteel, and one about tension matching issues and Dominants. Just let me know.

In the meantime, a kind soul has offered to let m borrow a Dominant D string to try out to see what kind of match it is with the Starks. I'llreport back in when I get to try it.

 

[Francois Blais]

Dave Young plays Spirocore Orch. I have never seen him play Dominants before(and I have seen Dave several times).

Thanks for the update, Adrian.
Joel Quarrington told me that Dave was using Dominants.
Maybe he used them only for a short while.

Regards,
François

 

[Tom Baldwin]

About the tension thing:
Tension and stiffness are two different things, so comparing tensions between string sets is not the solution.
Some strings feel stiffer, even if they are lower tension than other strings.

This is a good point, and I had never really thought of this possibilty. Along those lines, Superflexible is listed as having higher tension than Spiro mittels, for example, but from the name and reviews here, they seem to be less stiff. So if this can be confirmed, how is it achieved?

 

[anonymous0726]

I think the elasticity of the materials and design would be the answer.

 

[Francois Blais]

Along those lines, Superflexible is listed as having higher tension than Spiro mittels, for example, but from the name and reviews here, they seem to be less stiff. So if this can be confirmed, how is it achieved?

From Quinn Violins:

Spiro 3/4 mediums tensions (pounds):
G = 67.2
D = 68.3
A = 70.5
E = 72.8

Superflexibles 3/4 tensions (pounds):
G = 62.8
D = 66.1
A = 68.3
E = 70.6

So it seems the Superflexibles are lower tensions than Spiros, actually.
(based on Quinn's numbers)

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

From Quinn Violins:

Spiro 3/4 mediums tensions (pounds):
G = 67.2
D = 68.3
A = 70.5
E = 72.8

Superflexibles 3/4 tensions (pounds):
G = 62.8
D = 66.1
A = 68.3
E = 70.6

I'd love to see the numbers for the Starks, Dominant, and Flat chromesteel. Do you have a link for that page? I couldn't find it on the site.