"ape to man"

[DudeistMonk]

To add confusion to it all, I saw a cool NOVA a little while ago that proposed that evolution didn't occur in a linear fashion, but rather it occurred in a manner that created several different types of manlike species, which eventually went extinct and formed the modern day homosapien. This was based upon the discovery of several "hobbit" like skeletons and fossils. So perhaps Lord of the Rings wasn't that far fetched afterall, with it's hobbits, elves, dwarves, et al.

Yup...It's still happening today.

There are a great many varieties of human out there today, we like to call them "races." and when natural selection time comes (from the earth getting colder or hotter, from viruses or war or whatever) we are going to loose some of these "races" (whichever they may be) and from the few that survive more new paths will begin to emerge. For once I wish the super political correct would look at race for what it is, evolution in action....Diversity is good, it ensures that our species will survive as the earth changes.

 

[Marlat]

For once I wish the super political correct would look at race for what it is, evolution in action....Diversity is good, it ensures that our species will survive as the earth changes.

OTOH the kind of thinking that one race is inherently superior to another race led us somewhere before....where was that again....?

 

[Gard]

OTOH the kind of thinking that one race is inherently superior to another race led us somewhere before....where was that again....?

Diversity is not equivalent to superiority.

 

[DudeistMonk]

OTOH the kind of thinking that one race is inherently superior to another race led us somewhere before....where was that again....?

That's not what I said though...I went out of my way not to even use any races in my example for fear of someone taking it that way. IMO the natural thing to do at this juncture is to intermingle and create hybrid races as well as for some of us to mate within racial lines...it creates the most diversity, and its that diversity that will insure that something human continues to live as the earth and the ecosystem changes.

 

[T.O.Bass]

To answer Wilser's original question though.

It does happen on a small scale in minute increments, and the best example occurred in London during the Industrial revolution. A moth lives there, called the Peppered Moth - most were lightly coloured, but there were some darker variants - same species, just a little darker is all. They have a speckled white/grey/black colouration. In pre-industrial London, the moths vere fairly lightly coloured to blend into their surroundings (often tree bark and whatnot). The industrial Revolution coated all of london with a layer of soot, so basically everything just got... darker. Peoople Started noticing that there were fewer and fewer of the light coloured peppered moths. This is because the darker ones blended in better with their newly darkened surroundings, and consequently escaped/avoided predators more often. As a result, the light peppered moths were consumed to the point where they didnt pass on enough of their genes via reproduction (because they were all getting eaten due to their stickeing out like sore thumbs) while their darker bretheren lived, bred and passed on their genes. Now the peppered moth is noticebly darker , a couple hundred years later. Natural selection on a small, small scale.

 

[PSPookie]

Yup...It's still happening today.

There are a great many varieties of human out there today, we like to call them "races." and when natural selection time comes (from the earth getting colder or hotter, from viruses or war or whatever) we are going to loose some of these "races" (whichever they may be) and from the few that survive more new paths will begin to emerge. For once I wish the super political correct would look at race for what it is, evolution in action....Diversity is good, it ensures that our species will survive as the earth changes.

Not that I'm a fan of it, but perhaps tollerance and political correctness are part of the next evolutionary phase. What do you call an individual with antiquated ideas? A dinosaur.

 

[Steve]

If you play the gigs I do, you will begin to think that as recently as last week, Apes had learned to drive, get fake ID's, go to bars and shout SKYNYRD!!!

 

[DudeistMonk]

Not that I'm a fan of it, but perhaps tollerance and political correctness are part of the next evolutionary phase. What do you call an individual with antiquated ideas? A dinosaur.

Agreed...which is why while I was on my soap box I never said anything about superiority at any point. My point is there are two types of tolerance, the kind that says we are all the same and we must ignore everything that makes us different, and the kind that says we are all different and that we should appreciate our each others differences...I prefer a realistic mix of the two. It's Melting Pot vs. Salad Bowl and I choose Wendy's Chili Topped Salad.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Another thing to consider is that when Darwin first published On the Origin of the Species, he was basing his ideas largely on the exotic birds he encountered in the Galapagos islands.

So clearly evolution was present outside of humanity. We just deal with human evolution more because we have a much larger vested interest in where we came from, rather than some bird.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Your point doesn't stand because there is only a single human specy on Earth these days. We all belong to the same specy and there isn't such thing as human races, if you use the word race in its biological sense. It happened in the past and could very well happen in the future, although unlikely at our current state of development because all humans are linked very closely. The way we travel all around the Earth accelerate the process. We're all a big family right now.
Evelution has come a very long way since Darwin defined it. He established the basic principles but was wrong on many accounts.

 

[T.O.Bass]

Oh yeah, the finches.

Ok WILSER.

You wanna google "Darwin's Finches" and "Peppered Moth Evolution". You'll find what you're looking for there.

 

[Gard]

Agreed...which is why while I was on my soap box I never said anything about superiority at any point. My point is there are two types of tolerance, the kind that says we are all the same and we must ignore everything that makes us different, and the kind that says we are all different and that we should appreciate our each others differences...I prefer a realistic mix of the two. It's Melting Pot vs. Salad Bowl and I choose Wendy's Chili Topped Salad.

I prefer the Asian Chicken Salad myself, but yeah, that pretty much means we have the same outlook on that topic.

Sadly, not many really get that concept, even those that SAY otherwise....

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

While we're on the topic:

I'm also a little unsure as to why Darwinism and Evolutionism have been painted as opposites. After reading both texts to a mild degree of understanding, I'm not sure where that came from (i.e. why Evolutionist thinking would cancel out a religious belief or vice-versa)

Anyone care to enlighten me? (sorry if this is Forbidden Subject Matter)

 

[Ben Lesser]

Cause being "intelligent" was part of our evolution. Humans evolved to live especially in
society. So, we evolved that way. Sharks are at the peak of their evolution (they haven'thad major changes in thousands of year) and are perfectly adapted to their condition. We aren't adapted to live underwater or in the desert, we simply adapted to live in society.Therefore, an improved language system was necessary for us to communicate better with others. That is what made us intelligent. It is our incredible capacity to describe precise things to others, and therefore understanding better things,
that made our intelligence.

This man begs to differ.

 

[DudeistMonk]

I prefer the Asian Chicken Salad myself, but yeah, that pretty much means we have the same outlook on that topic.

Sadly, not many really get that concept, even those that SAY otherwise....

I'm glad someone actually read what I said without just assuming because I mentioned race and evolution in the same sentence that I'm a white supremacist.

Your point doesn't stand because there is only a single human specy on Earth these days. We all belong to the same specy and there isn't such thing as human races, if you use the word race in its biological sense. It happened in the past and could very well happen in the future, although unlikely at our current state of development because all humans are linked very closely. The way we travel all around the Earth accelerate the process. We're all a big family right now.
Evelution has come a very long way since Darwin defined it. He established the basic principles but was wrong on many accounts.

You make a valid point, however evolution doesn't have as clear boundaries as you would like. At the moment we are all sub-sets of the same species (by definition) but how do you think new species come about?

BTW, how could anyone argue evolution and its process when we have something like 250 different types of Dog (some of which can still mate with wolves, some of which cannot, mind you).

 

[flipper_gv]

This man begs to differ.

that was AWESOME!!!

never thought about that when writing it

 

[bassrique]

I saw this documentary over the weekend where they were supporting Darwin's theory through archeological discoveries and kept wondering, if 1,000,000 years ago, as they concluded, an ape started walking on 2 legs, then 800,000 years ago started using tools, then 500,000 years ago started hunting and having a meat diet in which the increased protein caused rapid brain growth which led to higher intelligence, how come we haven't seen any similar development happen with any other species?

1,000,000 years

That's actually a very long time. Really, how many generations can we squeeze into that?

I had always wondered about stuff like that. You know - you look in a book and you see this neat time-line graphic of man developing. And it's so precise: X-million years ago, we looked like chimps, then suddenly Y-million year ago we're were walking upright, then Z-million years ago we're making stone tools and are developing culture, all as though the change from X to Y to Z happened over night in each case.
Nice and neat. One day we're chimps, the next upright-walkers etc.
The truth is that change happens very slowly almost imperceptibly and over thousands of years and does not necessarily plateau on one set of traits. There is a lot of overlap, so much so that development is virtually unrecognizable in the moment. Now back to my cave..

The truth is that change happens very slowly almost imperceptibly and over thousands of years and does not necessarily plateau on one set of traits.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Silaxian]

Clearly we are descendants from Golgafrinchan telephone sanitizers, account executives, hairdressers etc. who crashed here on earth about 2 million years ago.

Speak for yourself, Sir. I am descended from The Silastic Armour Fiends of Striterax.

So there.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Your point doesn't stand because there is only a single human specy on Earth these days. We all belong to the same specy and there isn't such thing as human races, if you use the word race in its biological sense.

From a biological perspective there are very clear differences in race. Alterations in DNA methylation/acetylation patterns in different populations lead to the common expression of selected genes within those populations. For example, there are differences in the P450 enzymes across races which can have a huge impact on how an ethnic group metabolizes a drug, which from a pharmacological perspective makes race a very real factor in human populations.

 

[gonzorob]

I'm not exactly sure that what happened to our species intellingence wise as such a blessing. Anyone ever wonder if we are actually a mistake?