Applying a dye to maple: How to avoid blotchiness?

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Not sure what to do about inconsistency. I stirred the Transtint into the solvent well.

The one you said looks good is the one with tru oil down first. Surprising result.

I’ll use the rest of my scrap for bigger tests. Will top off with tru oil to see what that does to the color.

found one other option: mix Transtint with ethoxylated alcohol and then mix into tru oil. The makers of Transtint sell an oil additive made of this alcohol to increase compatibility with oils.

good pt about being able to sand back if I color the neck and don’t like it.

 

[Stagelab]

View attachment 5085916

That’s a single coat of tru oil on bare wood followed by the dye+water mix on top. Two coats of the dye mix.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

That’s a single coat of tru oil on bare wood followed by the dye+water mix on top. Two coats of the dye mix.

Cool. I like that one.

If you do that, just know that your color is just dry on top of the wood.

I'd spray a light coat of shellac on it to seal it on there. But, then you actually have a clear on the wood, and it wouldn't be an oil finish

 

[Stagelab]

Cool. I like that one.

If you do that, just know that your color is just dry on top of the wood.

I'd spray a light coat of shellac on it to seal it on there. But, then you actually have a clear on the wood, and it wouldn't be an oil finish

I did another test today of my dye and water mix after doing more sanding. It looks surprisingly good (no blotches) though this time the color is slightly off—needs some reddish brown. I’m going to apply tru oil on top to see how the color changes. If it still needs some red in there, I’ll adjust my mix for one last test before taking the plunge.

My only guess is that my sanding in prior tests wasn’t sufficient which is why I got so much blotchiness.

Is it better to dilute my dye and water mixture so I can apply multiple coats of it to the wood until I reach just light of my desired color? Or fine to have a dye mixture so rich in color that a single coat is enough?

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I did another test today of my dye and water mix after doing more sanding. It looks surprisingly good (no blotches) though this time the color is slightly off—needs some reddish brown. I’m going to apply tru oil on top to see how the color changes. If it still needs some red in there, I’ll adjust my mix for one last test before taking the plunge.

My only guess is that my sanding in prior tests wasn’t sufficient which is why I got so much blotchiness.

Is it better to dilute my dye and water mixture so I can apply multiple coats of it to the wood until I reach just light of my desired color? Or fine to have a dye mixture so rich in color that a single coat is enough?

Very nice.

One coat man. Doing it again won't change the color anyway.

 

[Stagelab]

Just applied the dye+water to my Mustang neck. The color is darker and more orange than on my final tests, though the only thing I did after the tests was add some drops of water to my dye mixture to lighten the color. I know my neck has different grain but I didn’t expect the color to come out so differently. Any idea why this might have happened? Here are pics 15min after the wipe-on application.

I’ll add two coats of Tru oil and gun stock wax next so the color will darken ever so slightly.

The good news is there a pretty consistent color throughout the neck. Slight discoloration at the heel. I applied the dye with cotton pads using long strokes from the heel to the headstock to make it as even as I could. Still see some streaks but not bad.

 

[Beej]

Can we see your test piece beside this one in the same light?

 

[Stagelab]

Can we see your test piece beside this one in the same light?

Comparing them in other light, the test and neck look similar.

Since the neck was darker than I wanted, I used a wet rag to pull back color and ended up with a color a bit lighter than my headstock but one I like.

The only thing is the blotchy area at the heel. It’s because when I first applied Transtint I used alcohol to pull back color there, not realizing till a few min ago that the alcohol sealed the wood.

What if I sand that area to bare wood and reapply Transtint, then use water to pull back color to blend with the rest of the finish. Make sense?

 

[Beej]

Are you referring to these spots?

These are end grain, and it usually takes more finish/dye due to being the 'open pores' or xylem. You could try drawing some out with alcohol or water, probably not much to lose. You might also be able to sand back just those areas with a scotch brite pad and remove a little of the colour bringing it closer. Maybe try to replicate a similar end grain bit on your test piece, sand it smooth like the neck, and then see if you can lighten the colour in those spots.

 

[SulzerType2]

Are you referring to these spots?
View attachment 5090401
These are end grain, and it usually takes more finish/dye due to being the 'open pores' or xylem. You could try drawing some out with alcohol or water, probably not much to lose. You might also be able to sand back just those areas with a scotch brite pad and remove a little of the colour bringing it closer. Maybe try to replicate a similar end grain bit on your test piece, sand it smooth like the neck, and then see if you can lighten the colour in those spots.

This is exactly why I discussed untinted sealer costs upthread. There are areas around the neck-to-headstock transition that do the same. I've found that there is a very fine line between sanding dye out endgrain and modifying the shape of these transition areas by over sanding.

 

[Big B.]

Bruce, are there any spray guns you’d recommend for under $75? And any that work with a small amount of liquid? My dye and water mix is a mere 5oz. That’s enough for a wipe on approach. 2-3 coats. Just doing the back of the neck.

A lot of people will scoff at the idea but I've been using a 25$ spray gun from harbor freight for my last few basses and it's been fine. Expensive spray guns are for cabinet shops and production guitar factories where the labor cost of sanding and buffing is more expensive than nice gear. You can dial them in just right to get a nearly mirror polish finish that requires very little, if any, buffing. The way the majority of us finish guitars involves enough sanding that the extra amount of orange peel you'll get from a cheap gun isn't much of a hindrance. With a little setup the cheap gun lays down a nice finish and if it gets too messy to clean I just toss it. Pretty perfect for a one off project like yours. I also highly reccomend getting some paper/mesh strainers to keep outside particles out of your finish material.

 

[Stagelab]

Water and DNA didn’t work to pull back the color so I lightly sanded the darker areas at the heel, doing my best maintaining the contour. Then applied a very diluted Transtint mix. Those areas are now a little lighter than the surrounding area. Overall I prefer it. See pic. The flat area of the heel is a bit blotchy but it’s barely visible in most light and part of it will be covered by the body when I reassemble.

I knew I’d have a witness line by the headstock. wondering if there’s a way to fade it… say by sanding the area on the other side of the witness line slightly. Any tips? Or better to quit now? Witness line is more noticeable in person than in this pic.

Considered using a cheap spray gun but since I’ve never done it before, I was concerned my results would be worse than wipe-on. Plus, I don’t have a handy place to do the spraying. I live in a city. No shed. And spraying in public could lead to a ticket if I got spotted by police since I’d likely be spraying some color on public property. Lacquer spraying is actually banned here, too.

 

[Beej]

Nice job on the heel area, that appears to blend pretty nicely.

I knew I’d have a witness line by the headstock. wondering if there’s a way to fade it… say by sanding the area on the other side of the witness line slightly. Any tips? Or better to quit now? Witness line is more noticeable in person than in this pic.

This is exactly why I suggested sanding up the sides of the headstock, as it's easier to blend colour differences along a line. You could still do this, and just go to here, blending on the corners where I've drawn the arrows. That way, when you dye the back of the neck, the colour change will be along edges, which tends to hide things.

 

[Stagelab]

Nice job on the heel area, that appears to blend pretty nicely.

This is exactly why I suggested sanding up the sides of the headstock, as it's easier to blend colour differences along a line. You could still do this, and just go to here, blending on the corners where I've drawn the arrows. That way, when you dye the back of the neck, the colour change will be along edges, which tends to hide things.
View attachment 5091024

The reason I didn’t do it originally was cause I’d have a witness line on the sides of the headstock. When I’m playing won’t the line at the top side of the headstock (where you drew an arrow) be more visible than the current line?

 

[Beej]

I would say no, as it will be hidden in the shadow much more than the obvious line across the back of the neck.

 

[Stagelab]

I decided to leave it as is at least for now. A few pics from different angles.

If I did it over, with what I know now, I think I could come close to matching the headstock. Would need to dilute my Transtint mix more. But after all this work, I’m not too eager to sand off the wax and oil to apply more color especially when I could just as well screw it up