Double Bass Approach for late-in-life beginning amateurs?

[Leeners]

Hey Jack,
I am also a late in life beginner on DB. There are many threads on this site that will discourage you from learning how to play DB by first learning on an EUB. I completely understand their arguments, however, I chose an AlterEgo EUB as my entry instrument. I did this mainly for portability issues. Mind you, my AlterEgo (Acoustic Figaro/Tournee) is NOT inexpensive, and I could have easily purchased a good quality acoustic DB for what paid for it. Having a more portable instrument made it possible for me to take it to work, so I could make it to lessons or rehearsals afterwards. Also, this particular instrument's geometry is such that it FEELS and balances on your body like an acoustic DB.

I don't have any playing experience with the Merchant EUB, but perhaps you could find one in your area to try out. Maybe take someone with you who has more experience playing DB and have them evaluate how it sounds and feels to them. If you go the EUB route, go for one that also has the same string length (nut to bridge) as an acoustic. My AlterEgo's is 41".

After two years with my EUB - and it was a very happy and satisfying time, I decided to move on up to an acoustic DB and purchased a fully carved New Standard LaScala. There is a separate thread about my instrument here somewhere...

The transition from my EUB to my acoustic DB was EASY! I was so happy! Needless to say, my EUB is not getting as much love right now. Since I don't practice with my amp, I am learning how to get a good SOUND acoustically. I can't rely on just my amp anymore...

I still have my EUB for those occasions when I can't or don't want to bring my acoustic. I think I have the best of both worlds going.

I say GO FOR IT! Enjoy the ride!

 

[Jack Clark]

Hi, Leeners-

Your route is what I had in mind when I first began thinking of getting an EUB first--except that I intend[ed?] getting a used EUB for the money savings while trying out a full-sized instrument to see how I'd do. I've heard clips of the Alter Ego--both arco and pizz--and I thought they were surprisingly close to a DB. But the AE is very expensive, which would obviate the point of me getting an EUB first. I've read nothing but good things about the Merchant's sound and have seen a couple of used ones for sale recently for under $1300. That's why I've been thinking Merchant.

But, as you also found, most guys advise against learning on an EUB first, so I'm rethinking here. I'm glad you had such a good experience doing it your way, though. That's very encouraging. And I, too, would think it would be good to eventually own both a DB and a EUB.

 

[Jack Clark]

Not long ago, a friend sent me a link to an e-book on self-discipline. Rather than being a book about organizational techniques, it spends a lot of time on the psychology of fear and self-sabotage.
* * * * *
If I am reaching or projecting by sharing the link with you, then feel free to ignore. But in case you find it as useful as I did:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

No, you're not off base here, zeytoun. Part of my problem is that I love jazz--even if my preference for standards and classics is mundane by most modern guys' preferences. My dad was a big band trumpeter and arranger in the 30s and 40s, and I remember him saying that although he admired jazz performers, he couldn't play jazz himself. He always said he just couldn't "hear" it, and that you had to be born with that ability.

So, of course, I grew up (and grew old) with the notion that if my dad, a pro musician, couldn't play jazz, how could I--a rank amateur--ever hope to play jazz.

I suspect that my dad was wrong about jazz players having to be born to it, but I think you can see where my self-doubt comes from in that area. I'm going to download and read that ebook. Thanks very much.

 

[Leeners]

I did not go down the EUB route because it was cheaper way to go, but because it was initially a necessity for portability and I was happy with the geometry of the AlterEgo. I have heard a lot of good things too about the Merchant EUB, but in the end, you will have to go try it for yourself to see if it's the right choice for you.

Renting is another option I considered. There is one place in my area that will apply the cumulative cost of the rental to your DB purchase, but in the end I wanted to have the freedom to shop around without that pressure.

I also recommend the jazz camp route. You learn a lot, meet lots of other people in your situation, and have a good time too.

 

[Feral Feline]

Hello Jack,

Welcome to the club of Late Boomers. Great thread you started. Such wonderful encouragement to all of us Late blooming Boomers.

I'm 43 and started on my journey 3 years ago. Since getting my DB about 2.5 years ago, I'm still reluctant to admit how long I've been playing because I haven't been as diligent in practicing as I know I could've/should've been.

One note of caution. I ramped up my practice regimen to get into a band and do a gig, which resulted in permanent injury. If I'd still been seeing my teacher and solicited advice I could've possibly prevented the permanence of it if not the injury altogether.

Nonetheless, injury be damned, I'm in a couple of bands and jam with a variety of people in a variety of genres. You may be surprised where your journey will take you; I never set out to play Jiddisch, Chinese or Celtic music, as I have my sights set on Jazz. I'm not there yet, so I continue on my way, open to the opportunities that present themselves knowing that any and all experience will get me closer to my destination, the horizon.

I'm sure you've heard the ancient Chinese proverb:
"Every 1,000 mile journey begins with but one step"

You've already taken several steps with your UG (keep playing that, too!) and with decisions made and posting here etc.

Always take that next step to the horizon...

 

[Jack Clark]

Lots of encouraging feedback and advice here. I appreciate all of it.

Last night, after another friend's gig, I got to "play" a Kay M1 for the first time. This was only the second DB I've ever touched. It seemed so much easier to play than my other friend's Chinese fully-carved that I tried about two months ago. I was actually able to play a familiar iii-vi-ii-V-I ending on it, even though I was pretty much guessing at the intonation (since I was going from my UG's 26" scale to a 41+" scale). But I'm surprised to now believe that if I ever do move to a full-sized DB or EUB, the scale adjustment is not going to be a serious problem.

The M1's strings seemed so much softer, easier and fun to play than my other friend's Chinese, and it produced a bigger and rounder sound, I think. I doubt that I've gained much in hand strength, calluses, and playing ability in the two months or so between trying these two DBs, so I'm guessing that it's likely a difference in the set up and/or strings. Of course, in my excitement at the opportunities to play DBs, I neglected to ask either of them what strings they were using.

This is all temping me to get a DB or EUB, big time.

 

[Scotter]

Hi Jack,

I've been meaning to reply to this thread for awhile but am only now getting around to replying. I just wanted to say that I found this whole thread very inspiring. I also really like your indirect approach to the whole subject. I've been tempted to pick up a Guitarron ever since hearing one weekly at an outdoor jam for about 10 years but recently settled on an Upright myself. I'll probably pick up one of those Kala Ubasses for lunch time practice at work: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] But they're not very loud acoustically like a nice Guitarron.

P.S. I love Idyllwild. My wife and I spent our honeymoon there. Car broke down on the way down the mountain and we got an 89 mile tow home from Hemet.

 

[Rocky]

Any thoughts out there on that plan, anybody?

I do have to say that upgrading to a DB or EUB is rather daunting, though. I mean, right now there's a certain amount of comfort in knowing that if I stick with the UG I won't have to learn arco (because I can't bow on the UG) and I won't have to learn thumb position (because I can reach the UG's top note, F4, from what DBers would call a VI position hand shape, anyway).

You also could consider getting a bass from a dealer that would give you credit on an upgrade. Companies like Upton bass give you full credit towards a upgraded instrument when that time comes so if you buy a laminated bass for example, and you decide a year or two down the road to get a hybrid or carved bass you only pay the difference. My past experience which is mostly on guitar and electric bass has been that a fine instrument makes it easier to learn, as well as more fun to play and practice. If you should decide it is not for you then you could sell it, and then there is always the option of renting a bass with the option to buy. If you decide to buy new, used, or rent to own be sure to find a teacher or luthier that can look and play the bass for you. Personally I would advise you to get a DB and forget the EUB as they are different animals, and there is something very "organic" about a DB that just feels wonderful!

 

[koricancowboy]

Play if you feel the need. Music is not about an end result its about the pursuit. The chase is the thing we do it for. Let the instrument guide you to where you need to be. You will be surprised at how far you can go when you play for the love of music rather than trying to hit some self imposed bar. I am also a late bloomer. I'm now about three semesters away from finishing my BM in classical performance and going to grad school. Let yourself guide you not those around you. Who cares about anyone else. Learn to play on your own terms and you will be the best bassist you can be. Remember talent is cultivated through practice. Time is as fleeting or abundant as you perceive it. Play what draws you and nothing less. Never ever undersell yourself. We are capable of whatever it is we put our mind to. I hate to sound like a cheerleader but this is all the experience from someone who is in a conservatory environment with people young enough to be his children. To think that the thought hadn't crossed my mind... Anyhow choose what you will, just be true to your choice and love what you do.

 

[thebige]

I'm 48 and I've been playing bass since 1979. I picked up the fretless bass about 4 years ago and got the opportunity to play a Double Bass at an open Bluegrass/Folk Jam yesterday. It was a pretty beat up bass the music store had in storage. It's definitely a different beast to play. The string height was much higher than an electric. I played for about 2.5 hours. My left hand was sore from "fretting", two fingers on my right hand had blisters on them plus there was a welt on my right arm from reaching over the bass to pluck the strings (the bass was probably over sized for me and I'm sure I was not using proper technique). The first thought that came to my mind as I got in my car to leave was "Gee, I can't wait until I feel better so I can do that again..."

I'm hooked.

I just need to decide whether to go with an acoustic DB or Electric. My gut is leaning toward acoustic but I don't know. I need to think about it some more.

E

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

5. Check out one of the many Summer Jazz Camps -- there are lots, and many cater to all age groups and experience levels. At the Aebersold camps, I've had many bassists who were just starting to get it together during their retirement years. In many of these camps, you don't need experience to still get a lot out of the week.

!

I agree on this - I have been going to Jazz Summerschool every year for the last 10-15 and it's good to find older people who are in the same position as you are.

It improves your morale and it's also a social event that is fun - but I always find that I learn something new and come away re-invigorated and with a list of things to do and listen to!

Lasy year I discovered Jackie McLean and couldn't believe I hadn't heard his music before!

Anyway - I think you would be pleasantly surprised to find that you are in good company!

 

[Jack Clark]

P.S. I love Idyllwild. My wife and I spent our honeymoon there. Car broke down on the way down the mountain and we got an 89 mile tow home from Hemet.

Hi, Scotter-

Ouch! I'll bet that cost you a few hundred.

Idyllwild's a fine place for a honeymoon! Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe honeymooned here in 1954.

Boy, I wouldn't say that you "settled" for a double bass over a guitarrón. I mean, I love my UG but I gotta be realistic here! Anyway, I retire in three more days and I've decided to give my UG a good year of woodshedding before I consider branching out to something more traditional--most likely a DB, if I then decide to do it.

Yes, I've found this thread inspiring, too. That's because of the TBer's who have taken the time to make serious expressions on this topic, all without feeling the need to denegrate my odd bass. This is a terrific community!

 

[Scotter]

Hi, Scotter-

Ouch! I'll bet that cost you a few hundred.

Well, previous work activities had involved lots of driving and I've always been able to make AAA membership one of those deductible expenses. Thus, the tow didn't cost anything except a little pride and its now its one of those stories that we tell about our marriage.

Idyllwild's a fine place for a honeymoon! Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe honeymooned here in 1954.

Didn't know that about Joltin' Joe but I have a few friends who live and play music around yer parts and we may visit again up that way soon.

Boy, I wouldn't say that you "settled" for a double bass over a guitarrón. I mean, I love my UG but I gotta be realistic here! Anyway, I retire in three more days and I've decided to give my UG a good year of woodshedding before I consider branching out to something more traditional--most likely a DB, if I then decide to do it.

My wife and I both play guitar and other instruments and we also "settled" on a new Tres Cubano at the same time. Over the years I've come to the conclusion that time spent on different instruments is good and lessons learned usually transfer from one to the other. I think its all about finding ways to re-wire your brain. So don't be too hesitant to make the jump to DB while still exploring The Guitarron. Congrats on your impending retirement!

Yes, I've found this thread inspiring, too. That's because of the TBer's who have taken the time to make serious expressions on this topic, all without feeling the need to denegrate my odd bass. This is a terrific community!

Ditto.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Anyway, I retire in three more days and I've decided to give my UG a good year of woodshedding before I consider branching out to something more traditional--most likely a DB, if I then decide to do it.

Jack, I've enjoyed your company here @ TBDB. You seem open and really interested in good jazz stuff, including good clips and a healthy appetite for learning tunes, but I must say that, at least to me, you seem to be a little too much "careful" in your quest. IMO, your "UG" is limited in a big way, especially that you have the interest in jazz.
What's to loose by just renting a DB for a couple of months and just giving it a shot? Like me, you ain't no spring chicken. One more year?
Is the DB an "intimidation" factor?
I say do it and do it now.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.

 

[Jack Clark]

Hi, Paul. I've sent you a PM.

 

[powerbass]

For what it's worth I am 48, started playing EBG 5 yrs ago, I just started playing DB about 3 months ago, I play in a couple of jazz ensembles. My advice is to get a DB now approach the process of learning this instrument thoughtfully, be curious, creative and have fun. Personally I limit how long I practice to 20-30 minutes. My bass is not set up well and the strings are very poor quality. If I feel strain in my body I stop practicing. I am going to change the set up very soon, that should help my practicing. Buy a bass you can afford, set it up so there is limited strain on your hands and fingers, go slow, find a good teacher, enjoy the ride

 

[PB+J]

I'll chime in--I'm 50 and played electric bass for years, as a kid (into my twenties), then put it away when adult life took over. I got it out again when I was near 40, and started gigging in bar bands. Then got serious about upright and also jazz guitar. Now I gig regularly, locally, in different settings. I love it, it's made my life a hundred times better. JUST DO IT!!!

I have very little of what I would call "talent," but I've become a much better player than I ever thought I could be. Turns out a lot of the stuff I thought was talent was just work and practice and time. I'm pretty competent and sometimes a little better than that. I make sometimes a good bit of money, sometimes not enough for gas.

At the same time, I'm never gong to be all that good. I reached a point where I'm too old--age matters in music and I'm too old for a lot of bands. The kind of people who go out to bars most of the time don't want to see their dad playing bass. And to get to the next level, I'd have to dedicate myself to full time playing, and I'm not even sure I'd want to do that. It's not a matter of "talent:" I'm just not willing to put in the work. I'm not sure I'd want music to be my full time job.

There's a lot to be said for serious, dedicated amateurism. Doing something for love, doing it with discipline and commitment--that's a good thing. You meet all sorts of people, get out of your rut, and you find out you can do more than you thought.

I've got a bunch of gigs coming up with a gypsy jazz band, guys ranging in age from 24 to 41 to me. Nice guys, good players, pay is meh but dinner is free and excellent and I like the music, I get out to a hip place and I work hard at playing as well as I can. What's not to like?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

My story is almost exactly the same as PB+J - except I'm not that keen on Gypsy Jazz - although I liked Dave Holland's latest album!

But I think it happens to a lot of people - the thing is by this age, we know who we are and what we like doing - so why not just do it!!

 

[Jack Clark]

. . . Turns out a lot of the stuff I thought was talent was just work and practice and time. . . .

I think I mentioned this once before, but while Harry Pickens was signing his ear training book for me--which is one of those books that takes ten minutes to read and ten years to accomplish--I asked him if he really put himself through that regimen or if it had come naturally to him. He said, "Oh, no. What you see on stage is the result of a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears." And he wasn't smiling when he said that, either.

. . . Nice guys, good players, pay is meh but dinner is free and excellent and I like the music, I get out to a hip place and I work hard at playing as well as I can. What's not to like?

Sounds sweet! Congratulations! 'Course I'm 15 years farther down the road, but these guys have convinced me that that doesn't matter because it's the journey that counts. Good thought, I think.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Hi, Paul. I've sent you a PM.

Got it, Jack.......nice. In your PM you mentioned two major areas where you can just go into room filled with basses That, in itself, is an experience that you'll never forget. You don't even have to pull one off the rack.....just look at the power in front of you. Realize that some of them had, possibly, a year or more of somebody's time and lives invested in them. (others, not so much) These instruments are big and as Ron Carter once said...."it's like carying around another person with you all the time."
Good luck, again, and do what you gotta do but at least go and visit a good DB shop. I don't care for the word "awesome, generally, but seeing 20 or so basses lined up in a row is that, exactly.