Are 8x10s still in use?

[agedhorse]

riightt....that's what i used early 85, the flatback cab and traynor head, and eventually bought them from the rehearsal bldg manager. When ppl didn't pay their rent, he kept "stuff" as collateral, i got lucky .That cab was already old when i used it, im guessing late 60's mid 70's.


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Those drivers have lived a rough life!

 

[DavidEdenAria]

AFAIK it's fairly common to pair an Ampeg 810E with a variety of amps, including the 800RB.

My perception is the 810E is not very transparent. By this I mean it tends to make everything you play through it sound fairly similar, rather than reproducing all of the fine details and nuances that distinguish various amps and basses from each other.

Also IMHO, about 80-90% of the sound most people associate with an SVT should actually be attributed to the 810E.

I think that is a fair assessment...it would be interesting to hear a shootout of different 8x10 with various amps but not many people would care ha!

I honestly haven't seen many 8x10s that aren't an Ampeg in many decades, Fender more recently and Peavey decades ago.

I don't know which version of Ampeg 8x10 is considered best but I'm guessing the very 1st alnico versions...I am guessing deterioration occurs with those old speakers...The CTS alnico 10s used in 60s and 70s Fender Super
Reverbs are notorious for the cone edges drying out and have to be reconed...not sure how reliable the 10s in Ampeg 8x10 are.

 

[ajkula66]

I don't know which version of Ampeg 8x10 is considered best but I'm guessing the very 1st alnico versions...I am guessing deterioration occurs with those old speakers...The CTS alnico 10s used in 60s and 70s Fender Super
Reverbs are notorious for the cone edges drying out and have to be reconed...not sure how reliable the 10s in Ampeg 8x10 are.

You've pretty much answered your own question IMO.

I know several people who have *really* old Ampeg 8x10 cabs and most of them had some work done.

They are still immensely popular as backline around here, though.

I never liked them. Whatsoever. New, old, in-between...not for me.

 

[agedhorse]

I don't know which version of Ampeg 8x10 is considered best but I'm guessing the very 1st alnico versions...I am guessing deterioration occurs with those old speakers...The CTS alnico 10s used in 60s and 70s Fender Super
Reverbs are notorious for the cone edges drying out and have to be reconed...not sure how reliable the 10s in Ampeg 8x10 are.

Totally different and unrelated speakers, the materials are completely different.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

You've pretty much answered your own question IMO.

I know several people who have *really* old Ampeg 8x10 cabs and most of them had some work done.

They are still immensely popular as backline around here, though.

I never liked them. Whatsoever. New, old, in-between...not for me.

What was the preference for bass cabinets late 60s and 70s? Unless they involved EV and other high power handling speakers, many of those bass cabinets had speakers that were going to distort fairly easily I am guessing.

Locally a company called Mcgee radio were suppliers of raw speakers and various kits for hi fi and sound reinforcement...lots of USA companies like Eminence, CTS,Utah but also what remained of long forgotten small brands like Cletron and Becker and import Europe brands...lots of Pioneer raw drivers...Peavey were huge and the quality was decent and Acoustic bass amps were all over too.

Homemade bass cabinets were all over the place locally!

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Totally different and unrelated speakers, the materials are completely different.

I didn't intend to imply they were related but pointed out that old drivers can and do deteriorate ....Jensen and their paper formers failed on a large scale they got out of MI speakers largely by late 69.

 

[ajkula66]

What was the preference for bass cabinets late 60s and 70s? Unless they involved EV and other high power handling speakers, many of those bass cabinets had speakers that were going to distort fairly easily I am guessing.

Fender used JBL speakers for higher-end cabs, while Ampeg utilized Altecs as an upgrade.

On the other side of the pond, everything before the initial Fane Crescendo 15" - which is *very* early '70s if I'm not mistaken - was just sheer junk. IMO. I've never played an old British bass cabinet - apart from Orange 2x15" but that's mid-70s already - that didn't sound like mushy, muffled garbage. Goodmans did make an interesting 18" speaker which sounded great in certain cabs but was rated at 50W and best utilized at half of that IME.

I own a German-made Allsound cab loaded with an Altec 421A, and an Italian Sound Supreme with the original Crescendo which I bought NOS a couple of years ago. Given that my use nowadays is only home and studio I don't foresee myself getting anything else.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Fender used JBL speakers for higher-end cabs, while Ampeg utilized Altecs as an upgrade.

On the other side of the pond, everything before the initial Fane Crescendo 15" - which is *very* early '70s if I'm not mistaken - was just sheer junk. IMO. I've never played an old British bass cabinet - apart from Orange 2x15" but that's mid-70s already - that didn't sound like mushy, muffled garbage. Goodmans did make an interesting 18" speaker which sounded great in certain cabs but was rated at 50W and best utilized at half of that IME.

I own a German-made Allsound cab loaded with an Altec 421A, and an Italian Sound Supreme with the original Crescendo which I bought NOS a couple of years ago. Given that my use nowadays is only home and studio I don't foresee myself getting anything else.

Hey my bud has a Hiwatt 2x15 70s cab he said the Fanes were blown but the local reconer made an Altec kit fit...runs his V4B thru it.

Ampeg had such an impact on the bass world by bands like the Stones...big Acoustic rigs were all over by mid 70s locally and then Peavey really took off.

 

[Wasnex]

...not sure how reliable the 10s in Ampeg 8x10 are.

Overall they are pretty reliable AFAIK. Let's keep a couple things in mind about the early cabs. First, 1969 was a long time ago. Second, the alnico-loaded cabs were only rated for something like 240W. So if you wanted to access the full power and glory of a pushed SVT, you really needed two of them. With both of these factors in mind and how some people love to push SVTs, it's wonder any of the original alnico drivers survive.

I think my MTI era 810 was rated at 400W. I used to apply about 15dB of boost centered at 40hz. The cab never complained or had any problems. Sounded just as awful to me the day I sold it as it did new . That means it sounded pretty much like every other Ampeg 810 I have had a chance to try out.

Modern 810Es are rated 800W.

I have never played an alnico loaded Ampeg 810. A lot of people seem to think they have the best tone. The current Heritage 810E is said to sound pretty close to the old alnico cabs.

Since I am a collector now, I actually wouldn't mind owning a Heritage 810 . I am nuts like that .

 

[agedhorse]

I didn't intend to imply they were related but pointed out that old drivers can and do deteriorate ....Jensen and their paper formers failed on a large scale they got out of MI speakers largely by late 69.

It depends on the specific manufacturer and driver model. For example, there are many drivers by JBL, Gauss, McCauley, Celestion, Rola, etc. that really don’t deteriorate unless abused. 50, 60, 70 years even. The common theme with these drivers is the materials and adhesives choices,

 

[InkCow]

Of all the amps and cabs I've owned over 49 years, the only one I regret selling was my Traynor 8-10. Only partial regret, however. Glad I no longer have to store the thing.

Allegedly made by Pete Traynor for Jimi Hendrix when The Experience came to play in Toronto in the 1960s.

Because the speakers are arrayed in two rows of three and one row of two, Traynor 810s sound superior to the two rows of four found in Ampegs, which tend to sound muddy by comparison.

The plastic Traynor patch was long gone. When I was playing in the USA, sound men from other bands would come up and ask what cabinet I was using. Commonly said things like, "I've walked all around this room. I hear highs and lows evenly in every spot. What make of cabinet is that?"

Me: "Traynor."

Soundman: "Never heard of it."

Jesse Keeler from Death From Above 1979 plays through a pair of these, although they’ve been loaded with an array of different speakers.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

It depends on the specific manufacturer and driver model. For example, there are many drivers by JBL, Gauss, McCauley, Celestion, Rola, etc. that really don’t deteriorate unless abused. 50, 60, 70 years even. The common theme with these drivers is the materials and adhesives choices,

Agreed I've got lots of 70s drivers from when I built speakers from Mcgee radio kits; Phillips, Rola, Quincy, Cletron, Cleveland, Becker, CTS and Utah among others like the big names Pyle formerly Utah and Eminence and all still function with some old Jensen and Oxford. .by late 70s Mcgee was really pushing Eminence speakers in general along with Pioneer...I had a quad of JVC MI 12 speakers with huge magnets.

The foam surrounds commonly failed on some hi fi speakers like Bose 901 but the early cloth surround versions apparently held up.

 

[agedhorse]

Agreed I've got lots of 70s drivers from when I built speakers from Mcgee radio kits; Phillips, Rola, Quincy, Cletron, Cleveland, Becker, CTS and Utah among others like the big names Pyle formerly Utah and Eminence and all still function with some old Jensen and Oxford. .by late 70s Mcgee was really pushing Eminence speakers in general along with Pioneer...I had a quad of JVC MI 12 speakers with huge magnets.

The foam surrounds commonly failed on some hi fi speakers like Bose 901 but the early cloth surround versions apparently held up.

I’m not talking about hi-Fi or guitar speakers, I’m talking about pro audio and bass speakers. The materials and adhesives used are different.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

I’m not talking about hi-Fi or guitar speakers, I’m talking about pro audio and bass speakers. The materials and adhesives used are different.

Sir I was just sharing my experience that a lot of old speakers I have including bass and musical instrument speakers still function...Utah 15s out of a 70s Fender bass cabinet that I still use in a 67 Ampeg Gemini II...I don't know what exactly was considered a bass speaker but Hammond B3 15 Jensens I have still function though likely not reliable imo.

You could share some info about Ampeg 8x10 drivers if you have such info on construction materials... back in the 50s a Jensen P10R was considered a bass speaker when used in 4x10 tweed Bassmans now considered possibly the holy grail of guitar amps by many but not good for bass guitar...Fender wisely went with JBL as an option in the 1960s Brownface and sealed and tonering cabinets but also Oxford and CTS as stock as Jensen was phased out.

 

[agedhorse]

Sir I was just sharing my experience that a lot of old speakers I have including bass and musical instrument speakers still function...Utah 15s out of a 70s Fender bass cabinet that I still use in a 67 Ampeg Gemini II...I don't know what exactly was considered a bass speaker but Hammond B3 15 Jensens I have still function though likely not reliable imo.

You could share some info about Ampeg 8x10 drivers if you have such info on construction materials... back in the 50s a Jensen P10R was considered a bass speaker when used in 4x10 tweed Bassmans now considered possibly the holy grail of guitar amps by many but not good for bass guitar...Fender wisely went with JBL as an option in the 1960s Brownface and sealed and tonering cabinets but also Oxford and CTS as stock as Jensen was phased out.

I am talking about speakers that use pulped paper cones, treated cloth surrounds. Not, seamed paper cones with paper or foam surrounds.

 

[HardNHeavy]

Those drivers have lived a rough life!

it was worse than that when i finished with it.Well i knew the drivers were blown, had a natural distortion to the cab, almost "rattled"..I graffitied the cones with band name later on...served me well for almost 10yrs

 

[Clark Westfield]

I had a Hartke 810 that I loved playing through. Great sound and the head was nice and high to adjust.

I loved that it was tall and I could park all my junk in top of it. Glasses, ear plugs, tuner drink.

Once I fell down the steps with it, I sold it the next week for a Darkglass 212 and never missed it.

 

[Podgorny]

I have a flat-back cab with the original speakers, which pairs with a blue-line SVT. For me, there isn't a better rock bass tone than the early Ampeg 8x10, and the later cabinets just don't do the thing. But mine lives in my studio purely for recording. I can't imagine trying to gig with it.

 

[Wavy]

Or not… Ampeg became the gold standard for multiple decades and the Traynor TC-810 shares the same format. The old YC-810 format that you had did not survive the culling of the herd.

Is that because of the array or other reason(s)?

When I was playing in the States, nobody knew Traynor. That has changed over the decades. I was surprised to see the name mentioned here, especially since it was Yorkville for so many years.

Jesse Keeler from Death From Above 1979 plays through a pair of these, although they’ve been loaded with an array of different speakers.

I borrowed another Traynor 810 for a few outdoor gigs. Tried it on the guitarist's side, but he preferred all 16 10s on my side. That was a nice sound.

 

[InkCow]

When I was playing in the States, nobody knew Traynor. That has changed over the decades

My first “real” amp was a YBA-3 Custom Special, which I got in 1988. I still have a Beta 800 power amp which I must have gotten (well used) in the early 90’s and I also have a Bloc 100G for guitar.

I don’t think East Tennessee has some hidden Canuck connection; I think Traynors weren’t unusual until the Yorkville-branded years and the old ones have succumbed to time.