Are american men being feminized?

[superfunk47]

And is ability to fix a bicycle tire really a good measure of worth?

As an aside - Absolutely. Not as a specific thing, but like Pacman said, as an indicator of their ability to figure something out. Self reliance (to a small degree). Logic. It's how we survived as a species for thousands of years. Amazing how much a few short decades can change.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

I defecate in urinals just to make a point.

bc

I poop in the sink and pee on all the girly men coming through the door. When I'm done I buy them beers for their trouble.

 

[XtreO]

Definitely. American men have all turned metrosexual. If there are any good-looking American girls that are in dire need of a manly man, come visit me in Norway

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I defecate in urinals just to make a point.

Making pointed turds is taking sphincter control to an ridiculous level.

 

[fdeck]

Examples are most of the high school boys my 16 year old daughter hangs around with. A much smaller percentage of them than the high school kids I remember are capable of getting a summer job on their own or understanding why it's important to have one rather than sit around and play video games all summer and then cry when they have no money.

And when one or more of them are hanging around my house and I ask them to help me with something like carry a large object across the yard or help me with a simple task for five minutes they are usually incapable of doing it. Some of my daughter's girlfriends are more capable of helping me than the boys are. Although not a single one of them (boys or girls) knew how to fix a flat tire on their own bikes.

Perhaps this is anecdotal and isn't representative of typical teenage boys and girls. Yet I hear this same thing from other parents about their teens and the friends they hang out with. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions but I am explicitly asserting that it's more common than not and this wasn't the case when I was in high school.

Ask them who Bob Seger is, and if they don't know, kick their asses.

 

[txbasschik]

Some things about the American male needed to change...don't see that as a problem.

Such as?

Being female, I must say...I love guys. Guys who hunt and fish. Guys who change their own oil. Guys who wouldn't be caught dead in any of the metro fashions. Guys who drink beer, not pretty, colored martinis. Guys who don't know about Manolo's, don't care about Manolo's, and who appreciate a woman who prefers Chucks or Tony Lama's to Manolo's.

I married such a man. I married a man who I know, if it came to it, would kick someone a$$ to preserve my honor, were it sufficiently offended.

The little foo-foo, "Sex In The City" type of women may want a man who knows fashion, uses a mechanic for every little thing on the car, and is oh-so sensitive to their every neurosis. But not me! *Real* women want *real* men, and we raise our sons to be real men, too. No matter what the school try to make them into.

Cherie

 

[Jared Lash]

I get that mentality Cherie, but the thing that interests me is what exactly it is that makes a man "manly".

I'd agree that self-reliance and protection of the ones he loves are definitely two of those qualities.

But the actual examples of changing their own oil or drinking beer are simply social conventions.

Why is it that changing oil is manly but building their own computer or setting up a wireless network aren't? Or that beer drinking is manly and wine isn't? Just social conventions really. And if I don't stop to think about it I fall into accepting them as well.

To me there are a few fundamental aspects of "being a real man" and the rest is fluff that we've accepted because we've been told to.

No real point I guess, I just find this kind of stuff interesting.

 

[mike_v_s]

I get that mentality Cherie, but the thing that interests me is what exactly it is that makes a man "manly".

Easy. Blimp ownership. Either current or previous. That, and a healthy appreciation for Extreme Youth Combat. I fit the bill so well that my knuckles are still dragging down the street and I got home 5 minutes ago.

Mike

 

[Korladis]

Such as?

Being female, I must say...I love guys. Guys who hunt and fish. Guys who change their own oil. Guys who wouldn't be caught dead in any of the metro fashions. Guys who drink beer, not pretty, colored martinis. Guys who don't know about Manolo's, don't care about Manolo's, and who appreciate a woman who prefers Chucks or Tony Lama's to Manolo's.

I married such a man. I married a man who I know, if it came to it, would kick someone a$$ to preserve my honor, were it sufficiently offended.

The little foo-foo, "Sex In The City" type of women may want a man who knows fashion, uses a mechanic for every little thing on the car, and is oh-so sensitive to their every neurosis. But not me! *Real* women want *real* men, and we raise our sons to be real men, too. No matter what the school try to make them into.

Cherie

Yeah, but I like all those things in a woman, too. I don't see "toughness" as being a male characteristic. I don't like the way that "flamboyant" gays talk because I don't like it when women talk that way either.

Also, what's Manolo's?

 

[Tama]

Such as?

Being female, I must say...I love guys. Guys who hunt and fish. Guys who change their own oil. Guys who wouldn't be caught dead in any of the metro fashions. Guys who drink beer, not pretty, colored martinis. Guys who don't know about Manolo's, don't care about Manolo's, and who appreciate a woman who prefers Chucks or Tony Lama's to Manolo's.

I married such a man. I married a man who I know, if it came to it, would kick someone a$$ to preserve my honor, were it sufficiently offended.

The little foo-foo, "Sex In The City" type of women may want a man who knows fashion, uses a mechanic for every little thing on the car, and is oh-so sensitive to their every neurosis. But not me! *Real* women want *real* men, and we raise our sons to be real men, too. No matter what the school try to make them into.

Cherie

Like your style.

 

[funkalicious101]

Those Sex in The City women? You mean feminine women?

 

[Pacman]

Such as?

Being female, I must say...I love guys. Guys who hunt and fish. Guys who change their own oil. Guys who wouldn't be caught dead in any of the metro fashions. Guys who drink beer, not pretty, colored martinis. Guys who don't know about Manolo's, don't care about Manolo's, and who appreciate a woman who prefers Chucks or Tony Lama's to Manolo's.

I married such a man. I married a man who I know, if it came to it, would kick someone a$$ to preserve my honor, were it sufficiently offended.

The little foo-foo, "Sex In The City" type of women may want a man who knows fashion, uses a mechanic for every little thing on the car, and is oh-so sensitive to their every neurosis. But not me! *Real* women want *real* men, and we raise our sons to be real men, too. No matter what the school try to make them into.

Cherie

While I respect it, I think this is just as sexist as anything.

I think a *real* man refuses to let anyone (male or female) define his roles for him. I shoot, hunt (I even load my own ammunition). I've taken down an engine and rebuilt it (however, I choose to spend my time differently now, and therefore use a mechanic because I can afford to). I've been to a war zone. I can also cook, sew a button, and discuss poetry. I wear fashionable clothes, but am not a slave to fashion. I defy your ability to put me in some box. I drink beer (I've even brewed my own). And I drink wine. I hate your box, and won't get in it.

I am immediately suspicious of *anyone* who tells me what they think is a *real* anything (man, woman, bass player, whatever) is. It's just another attempt at someone to label someone that's different. Rather than to accept and celebrate (and *gasp* possibly learn something from them) them.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

 

[RicPlaya]

Wow good subject

American youth in general has lost something. Not to sound like an old man "back in my day" etc. but like a lot of you have pointed out many are lazy, lethargic, helpless, have this false sence of entitlement I still don't understand. I look at them and it seems all the kids are somewhat asexual. Boys look and act like girls, like they are meeting half way in the middle. Oh and they are all bisexual now by the age of 14. I think the media and TV has a lot to do with it. It's cool, to be bisexual, versus an 18 year old going to college and finding out for him or herself. These parents are raising a generation of cake eating candy arses! There are some good ones sure, but their parents made sure to raise them right!

 

[RicPlaya]

While I respect it, I think this is just as sexist as anything.

I think a *real* man refuses to let anyone (male or female) define his roles for him. I shoot, hunt (I even load my own ammunition). I've taken down an engine and rebuilt it (however, I choose to spend my time differently now, and therefore use a mechanic because I can afford to). I've been to a war zone. I can also cook, sew a button, and discuss poetry. I wear fashionable clothes, but am not a slave to fashion. I defy your ability to put me in some box. I drink beer (I've even brewed my own). And I drink wine. I hate your box, and won't get in it.

I am immediately suspicious of *anyone* who tells me what they think is a *real* anything (man, woman, bass player, whatever) is. It's just another attempt at someone to label someone that's different. Rather than to accept and celebrate (and *gasp* possibly learn something from them) them.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

Nothing wrong with a woman liking a manly man, just like a woman can like a artsy guy, or a writer, etc. Men like ladies as well...with long hair and wear dresses. Nothing wrong with liking chicks into sports, or like those kind of things eithier. I think she was making a point for the discussion of this thread. Men and women in the past had more defined roles. Now they really mesh. Nothing wrong with that, I think the real issue is how are these kids turning out. WHo cares about what they wear or how they look..they don't want to work, and are lazy, generally speaking. You being in the military, see any difference in the new recruits coming in compared to when you were 18 in bootcamp? Just curious.

 

[L-A]

I am immediately suspicious of *anyone* who tells me what they think is a *real* anything (man, woman, bass player, whatever) is. It's just another attempt at someone to label someone that's different. Rather than to accept and celebrate (and *gasp* possibly learn something from them) them.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

I want to put emphasis there.

Often, it's a matter of vocabulary, as I dare to assume that Cherie meant she found THE kind of man that fits THE kind of woman she is. It's her life, her values and more power to them both if they build their lives around the right people.

I am myself a pretty good mechanic who can explain and build an electric engine or a McPherson strut from scratch, I did not go to war but I'm a good shooter, I love black beer and BBQ steak. I also love sushi, I can speak of wine for some time and of art for years at a time.

A man who tells me he knows what is a *real* man reeks of insecurity.

If there's a way to be a man, it's written somewhere in my head or my genes, it's specific to myself, and certainly is not some "socially correct" way of being, that in 1500 meant wearing powdered wigs and disregarding hygiene, and 20 years ago meant tight leather suits with long hair and a high-pitched voice.

---

By the way, I am every day baffled by the romantic success of the "girly" kind of man. The high-pitthed voithe with bad pronouthiathion, flattened hair and pink bracelets kind of guy. Such a success means there is something they're doing right, and at the risk of not wanting to reproduce it at all, I'm still curious at what it is that makes them seducing.

Anyone knows?

 

[Pacman]

I want to put emphasis there.

Often, it's a matter of vocabulary, as I dare to assume that Cherie meant she found THE kind of man that fits THE kind of woman she is. It's her life, her values and more power to them both if they build their lives around the right people.

And that is totally cool. We all have our likes and dislikes - we should all respect that.

A man who tells me he knows what is a *real* man reeks of insecurity.

I totally agree. And the attempt to put someone in a box of what is real or not is an attempt to make themselves feel better about said insecurity.

By the way, I am every day baffled by the romantic success of the "girly" kind of man. The high-pitthed voithe with bad pronouthiathion, flattened hair and pink bracelets kind of guy. Such a success means there is something they're doing right, and at the risk of not wanting to reproduce it at all, I'm still curious at what it is that makes them seducing.

Good question - you ought to see their success in Japan! It's baffling!

 

[Pacman]

Nothing wrong with a woman liking a manly man, just like a woman can like a artsy guy, or a writer, etc.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. But don't tell me what's a *real* man or not. Say something like *that* is the type of man/woman I prefer. Big difference.

You being in the military, see any difference in the new recruits coming in compared to when you were 18 in bootcamp? Just curious.

Don't get me started. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I grew up thinking that I had to work to earn my position, and my lifestyle. Nowadays, kids think they're going to have the same lifestyle their parents have, without the 20+ years of working for it. Disgusting.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Nothing wrong with a woman liking a manly man, just like a woman can like a artsy guy, or a writer, etc.

Writing isn't masculine?

[This invalid link has been removed]

Perhaps you might want to read some better books...

 

[MakiSupaStar]

While I respect it, I think this is just as sexist as anything.

I think a *real* man refuses to let anyone (male or female) define his roles for him. I shoot, hunt (I even load my own ammunition). I've taken down an engine and rebuilt it (however, I choose to spend my time differently now, and therefore use a mechanic because I can afford to). I've been to a war zone. I can also cook, sew a button, and discuss poetry. I wear fashionable clothes, but am not a slave to fashion. I defy your ability to put me in some box. I drink beer (I've even brewed my own). And I drink wine. I hate your box, and won't get in it.

I am immediately suspicious of *anyone* who tells me what they think is a *real* anything (man, woman, bass player, whatever) is. It's just another attempt at someone to label someone that's different. Rather than to accept and celebrate (and *gasp* possibly learn something from them) them.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

I knew a man from Nantucket hardly classifies as poetry.

 

[Kosko]

I like Martinis. A straight vodka drink is no girly drink.