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Are american men being feminized?

Are american men being feminized?

  • Yes

    Votes: 88 47.6%
  • No

    Votes: 30 16.2%
  • Kind-of

    Votes: 32 17.3%
  • Beta-carotene

    Votes: 35 18.9%

  • Total voters
    185
I don't believe in utopiae. There aren't any golden eras. An easy life makes people stupid, a natural self-regulating law of equilibrium if there ever was one.

History is rife with characters who thought they ruled the world. Life at the top carries with it no longevity. "Ruling the world" is a trap for arrogant fools, set by fools and baited by fools.

Life is hard. It's supposed to be hard. And once you recognize that, it's not as hard any more.
 
Define abject poverty. We had, and still have, the richest poor people in the world.
Relative to the cost of living? I'm not so sure.
Either way, two incomes were not required for home ownership in the 1950s. Lower taxes were a huge part of this.
A look at historical tax rates shows that, if anything, personal income tax rates were higher in the '50s than they are now. Link Removed
I'd say it has a lot more to do with wages relative to the cost of living back then, as well as company-funded pensions vs. the self-funded retirement plans many of us have today. In fairness, the latter situation probably wasn't sustainable (even though some of that money later went to rich pay and stock-option packages for top executives). And neither was the economic and political situation the US found itself in--this country came out of WWII so much stronger than just about everyone else, and there's no way that was going to last.
 
Or maybe we largely thought we did, which could help explain why Sputnik was such a shock and surprise.

Bah! it was just 2 salad bowls held together carrying a radio transmitter. I mean really, it's not all that impressive. I think our space program at the time was better actually.

I'll refrain from making any inane comments about the 1950's and what things were 'better'.
However I do believe being a man, at least in my experience, is taking responsibility, being able to fix your own problems, not needing to call a specialist(or ask for directions :p ), knowing when you do need help and being able to rely on friends, neighbors, or family to assist you.
 
Bah! it was just 2 salad bowls held together carrying a radio transmitter. I mean really, it's not all that impressive. I think our space program at the time was better actually.

What was impressive was that those two salad bowls and transmitter were up in space in orbit around the earth. That was a wake-up call to the US. Suddenly math and science became important again.
 
Bah! it was just 2 salad bowls held together carrying a radio transmitter. I mean really, it's not all that impressive. I think our space program at the time was better actually.

I'll refrain from making any inane comments about the 1950's and what things were 'better'.
However I do believe being a man, at least in my experience, is taking responsibility, being able to fix your own problems, not needing to call a specialist(or ask for directions :p ), knowing when you do need help and being able to rely on friends, neighbors, or family to assist you.

Isn't that the same as just being an adult?
 
Relative to the cost of living? I'm not so sure.
A look at historical tax rates shows that, if anything, personal income tax rates were higher in the '50s than they are now. Link Removed
I'd say it has a lot more to do with wages relative to the cost of living back then, as well as company-funded pensions vs. the self-funded retirement plans many of us have today. In fairness, the latter situation probably wasn't sustainable (even though some of that money later went to rich pay and stock-option packages for top executives). And neither was the economic and political situation the US found itself in--this country came out of WWII so much stronger than just about everyone else, and there's no way that was going to last.

Indeed, taxes have gone down dramatically since then. Ever wonder why college is no longer affordable? That's why. Wages have also decreased in relation to cost of living.
 
Define abject poverty. We had, and still have, the richest poor people in the world. I agree that it shouldn't always be the mother who stays home...but what's the deciding factor? Should my wife go out in the workforce in the name of equality alone, or should it be a rational decision based on raw income? Either way, two incomes were not required for home ownership in the 1950s. Lower taxes were a huge part of this.
Much of the population lived with no indoor plumbing and no electricity, especially in the rural south, and especially non-whites. And of course, there were ghettos. Pretending this is not the case is simply historical revisionism.

There's a lot of unsubstantiated claims being made here, man. Higher taxes don't equal prosperity; I think you may have your causes and effects mixed up here. Governments don't make money, they only take it, skim a high percentage to feed beaurocracy, and distribute it elsewhere. That's as close to a tax debate as I'm willing to get. The gov't isn't, and shouldn't be, a university's only source of funding.
California's taxes are much lower today than they were in the 1950's. The University of California, which once got all the funding it needed without having to charge students tens of thousands of dollars, was admired the world over. That is a fact. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't change history. People are so ridiculous. They know that better things cost more money, yet expect to get something for nothing from government. The UC was a publically funded school. Now it is, at best, publically 'encouraged.' It is no longer accessible to anyone who qualifies due to being chronically underfunded. It was outstanding when it got all its revenue from the public, and has declined since it has had to rely on fees.

Prisons only take money away from university funding when they're the only two things being funded. It'd be just as easy to say that congressional pensions and the six-figure salaries that university adminstrators receive drove up the cost of higher education. It's also just as easy to say that if the government didn't tax me so much, I could afford a college education without the need for a loan.
.
A university education was available to anyone who met the requirements then, whether they had money or no cash at all. Why is this not the case today? Because we decided to cut our taxes, and spend millions locking up potheads.

I'm glad to hear your personal situation is atypical of the way too many kids these days are raised. Commercialism is what drives capitalist economies; a certain amount of it isn't bad. I would argue that today's commercialism has tipped towards the point of making 'stuff' the new god; the more stuff, the happier you'll be. This was not the case in the 1950s, at least not in my family's experience. People who didn't have money were not encouraged incessantly to buy things on credit at their local Best Buy, see the latest movies, own the latest computers, buy the latest iPod, etc. "Living within your means" was a concept that was imparted to my father, at least, and most of his contemporaries that I've met; I don't see it so much now.
Everything is driven by profit in unregulated capitalism. There is no room for ethics or morality. But that's a whole different discussion.

I am a fan of saving it for marriage, but that was beside the point. I highlighted the relevant part, which you already mentioned; see my previous post on responsibility. I like birth control, too, but my kids are living proof that nothing is 100%. There are plenty of people I know who have found this out the hard way, and then abandoned kids or been abandoned. It's far, far more prevalent now than it was a few decades ago.
It's best to use condoms and another form of birth control in conjunction. That way if one fails, there's still the other. Everything you do is a risk, every step you take outside is a risk, you take the risk of choking every time you bite into a tasty hamburger. Some things are worth those risks, and with some knowledge, those risks can be minimized. I find much of the "saving it for marriage" attitude is based on religion. I subscribe to a different faith than those that hold that attitude. It's no sin for me.


I'd love to see your source for this assertion. I can find absolutely nothing, even from unreliable sources, to back up this claim.

Sending a PM, this gets a little political.

Glad to hear it. I used to like the show; when they devoted entire shows to making fun of my personal beliefs, they ceased to be funny to me, and the fact that it's only one in a long string of shows that shows the American father in a horrible light disturbs me. Again, I don't know if it's cause or effect, or both, but some shows depicting fathers doing their jobs right would be nice, for a change.
I don't like that attitude. "It's okay to ridicule everyone's beliefs but mine." It's part of the deal if they make fun of everyone, sooner or later they're going to get to me. Yes, perhaps it would be better to have shows with fathers being good dads, but that wouldn't be as funny or entertaining. The source of plot is conflict.




I completely agree.
Good that we actually agree on something, lol.
 
I could answer this thread to how I really feal about it, but Im willing to bet theres a 100% chance I would get banned for it so im going to keep my mouth shut.

Id also bet that if I said it 50 years ago, and the internet was around back then, then I wouldnt get banned.

Take that for what you will
 
I think of a time when both parents didn't have to work if they didn't want to just to pay a mortgage.

They don't have to now. They just need to buy a 1950 sized house, with a 1950 sized down payment and they will manage just fine.

Average square footage of a new single family home in 1950: 983 sq. ft.

Average square footage of a new single family home in 2004: 2,349 sq. ft.

Single bathrooms, kids sharing bedrooms, etc. were all very common.
 
By your figures, I have a larger than average house and by today's standards, I make a good salary. My father did not make a particularly good salary in the 50's (I make more than 10 times what he made in that era), yet we had a larger house. Granted our cars were old (mine is a '95), and we didn't have to pay much for air conditioning (fans and windows are pretty cheap) and in general all fuel and food costs were low, even as a percentage of earnings. So what happened? Part of it is I have much more "stuff". My priorities are different than my parents priorities. My transportation, housing, medical, and grocery costs are not just more in real dollars, they are more as a percentage of earnings. We have a far greater difference between those with money from the purported middle class. The so called elite, company presidents, oil and other commodity tycoons, popular personalities (sports, arts, literature) have made tremendous gains compared to the common man and at the expense of the middle class. However, this is getting seriously off topic, so I'll end my rant now.
 
They don't have to now. They just need to buy a 1950 sized house, with a 1950 sized down payment and they will manage just fine.

Average square footage of a new single family home in 1950: 983 sq. ft.

Average square footage of a new single family home in 2004: 2,349 sq. ft.

Single bathrooms, kids sharing bedrooms, etc. were all very common.

Sorry, those houses aren't available where I live. They were available where I used to live at about $350,000.

The down payment a friend's family in Hayward, Ca made in 1950-some-odd when they bought their house? $1000. They took a year to save up and buy it. It had two bathrooms, and they added onto it over the years. Had it paid off in thirty years, and have watched it appreciate over the years.
The 1600-1900 sq. ft houses they built a couple of years ago on the edge of town are still going for about $100-$120k, depending on options. Down payment for a family with average credit: $20,000+taxes and fees. I don't know about you, but with both my spouse and I working, we're able to keep our heads above water, but it's going to take a lot longer than a year saving up, even assuming all we spent money on was rent and bills, and ate nothing but ramen, moved into a one bedroom apartment and crammed all four kids in the bedroom with us.

Your assertion isn't grounded in reality, my friend, at least not the reality most Americans share. And it doesn't have anything to do with the feminization of American men, either, so I personally won't be discussing the '50s anymore except as related to masculinity.
 
Sorry, those houses aren't available where I live. They were available where I used to live at about $350,000.

The down payment a friend's family in Hayward, Ca made in 1950-some-odd when they bought their house? $1000. They took a year to save up and buy it. It had two bathrooms, and they added onto it over the years. Had it paid off in thirty years, and have watched it appreciate over the years.
The 1600-1900 sq. ft houses they built a couple of years ago on the edge of town are still going for about $100-$120k, depending on options. Down payment for a family with average credit: $20,000+taxes and fees. I don't know about you, but with both my spouse and I working, we're able to keep our heads above water, but it's going to take a lot longer than a year saving up, even assuming all we spent money on was rent and bills, and ate nothing but ramen, moved into a one bedroom apartment and crammed all four kids in the bedroom with us.

Your assertion isn't grounded in reality, my friend, at least not the reality most Americans share. And it doesn't have anything to do with the feminization of American men, either, so I personally won't be discussing the '50s anymore except as related to masculinity.

350,000? That's incredibly cheap for a house.
 
This thread is entertaining. I've gotten a good chuckle out of the last 2 pages. I know it's already been said, but everyone's memory gets so short when they're trying desparately to bridge facts to make a point, but...correlation does not equal causation. I know, I know, the people that need to read this the most are the first to ignore it.

Mike
 
I think the art of being a GOOD man has been lost.

I think women as a whole are so unused to chivalry that it doesn't make much of a difference either way.

I think the mass media and popular culture (especially rap music and the 'thug' culture) make men out to be something they aren't and by rights shouldn't be.
 
boobfail.jpg
 
So we have ~200 posts, presumably by mostly men, about whether men are being feminized. Yet none of us have admitted to being feminized ourselves -- it is always some other men who are suspected of being feminized.

So why not ask the question more directly:

Have you been feminized?
 
So why not ask the question more directly:

Have you been feminized?

I suspect the answer would (almost) universally be 'no.' Kind of like those man on the street interviews where people tell the reporter that the economy is treating them well, but they're worried about the neighbors.