Are bass amps obsolete?

[Medicine Man]

If I knew guitarists who were content with a Kemper or a little Champ I would switch today. Until these musical Neanderthals quit saturating tube stacks to get their "tone," I need to have a sonic deterrent to keep the volume cold war from escalating. Seriously, I've begged them to switch so many times.....

 

[BurningSkies]

I wouldn't. That is pretty standard practice all over the place, even when there is plenty of sub action in place.

You're a reggae outfit. Mondo bass. Lucky you to be able to live the bass massage dream on stage. No doubt your FOH has high-pass on the stage mic's.

I do wonder how you get on with the kick and bass tom mic's that can't be highpassed.

Big stage bass makes feedback and bleed city without gates, if the soundguys are to be believed.

While we're 'reggae' we're also billed as high energy reggae-soul, that means we touch on those plus funk, rock, psychedelic, metal and a few other things along the way. All original but the jumping off point is reggae/soul.

I'd expect some HPF or gates on the toms as well as a LPF on the kick where appropriate just so our drummer isn't bleeding into his own mics, he's a heavy hitter. Across all the types of venues I've never had much of a problem and prefer to turn up loud only when I'm really required to, and I find that less comfortable than having my usual stage volume.

So, the other thing to think about is that I hate when bass swamps a room, Yeah it's reggae, but I've seen so many guys turn up the bass knob and turn off the mid and treble and just sound terrible. I have a little bit of bass boost, my mids run flat, and my treble is rolled off a bit, but not all the way. I HP at 35hz always (it's tucked under my board and always on)...and that's usually what most knowing soundmen are doing in FOH so I'm matching that.

If you please, what is the actual long form when they present you the DI?

Long form; our stage plot/line list which has been provided in advance if the gig gives info for each line. Mine says 'Preferred DI provided'. The tech rider goes into even more detail if they get that far. If they don't, I usually say something along the lines of "when you get as far as running lines you can just drop an XLR to my rig and I'll get to my DI" if that hasn't done the trick, "you're going to love my DI..it's a really nice clean tube DI"

We also have enough lines on stage that often the problem is less someone wanting to force me to use something from the clubs milkcrate of DIs and more will they have enough for the other things on stage. ; ) we actually carry plenty of extras but choose to only bring them out when we need to.

Judging by recordings of Bill's band I've seen online, the FOH sound is usually pretty awesome.

Thanks Jimmy, we do our best to present the best sound out front. Currently dealing with a guitarist who's out of control on volume, but that too will be handled.

Some idea of what it sounds like for those who care:

Reggae:
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Soul:
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Other:
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[jeff62]

No.

 

[IamGroot]

Bass amps are not simply about convenience and/or practicality (or the lack thereof) for many of us.

I simply enjoy hearing myself through speakers. When I can, I will bring an amp. If I can get away with it, I'll bring an Ampeg SVT. The sound of that heavy beast makes me smile.

They absolutely will be less common in a decade or so. We'll probably all have wireless basses with transmitters you can't see that send a signal directly to the computer used to run sound (that is the size of a pack of gum). Every audience member will be wearing headphones (tiny earbuds) that allow them to control the volume of their live band. Take out your earbuds and all you will hear are people talking and the sound of sticks hitting electronic drums pads. Your average bar will sound like a library until you put in earbuds.

So, not yet... but it's coming.

I am waiting for the Orgazmatron kiosks.

 

[4001]

nah you got it all wrong, reeeal professionals learn how to make their DI sound how they want the FOH to sound, well some do and the rest are luddites lugging amps around. One day that may be true.

Sure, I can DI post EQ.... really, with my stereo rig, I'd want 2 DI signals and 2 mic'd signals... I bet that would piss off the soundguy real good....

 

[Wisebass]

The car has been around for over a century, and some still ride horses or motorbikes!

Fixed that for you! (the sound of a bike is better than the sound of a horse )

Rock and Roll!


Wise(b)ass

 

[Brian Licinski]

If I knew guitarists who were content with a Kemper or a little Champ I would switch today. Until these musical Neanderthals quit saturating tube stacks to get their "tone," I need to have a sonic deterrent to keep the volume cold war from escalating. Seriously, I've begged them to switch so many times.....

The key is to get the drummerto switch then they all fall

 

[Madhouse27]

Imagine a futuristic, sterile society several hundred years from now and some kid finds his great, great grandfather's SVT rig up in an attic and is imprisoned for disrupting the common good.

 

[Medicine Man]

The key is to get the drummerto switch then they all fall

I've tried to get him to switch to the electronic kit he already owns, but he says it's too valuable to risk his investment by moving it from his house. He will likely get fired, as is proper.

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Maybe, just maybe, they would be obsolete for gigs-and maybe recording--but what about at home?

Small mix consol with 3 or 5 channels with either headphone or studio monitor

 

[Nunovsky]

In every situation I have played in the last several years FOH has controlled the bass, volume and tone. My stage amp, when I have occasion to use one, serves as my personal monitor. This is not only on big stages but also in small clubs when band leader provides sound and mix. FOH always wants the stage volume down so they can control the mix. And yet, it seems almost every day, a new bass amp is out.
Thoughts?

I get what you mean. And with the quality of the amp models of units like the Helix and others, the need to bring an amp to a gig is smaller these days.
But honestly, the amp has a diferent kind of response and the combination of amp+cabinet live is what makes you signature sound.
It's poopy that the bass amps are no longer micked or that most D.I. from the heads don't have cab sim that could provide the same experience.
But no matter what, the feeling and tone of the amp is its own thing and the music honestly has something lacking if that isn't included in the mix just because its more confortable to whoever is running the sound.

I leave this video of the new Boss Waza Tube Expander where they state that the cabinet affects the way that the amp responds and sounds as well, which is quite interesting when we usually only provide the preamp section to the FOH through the dedicated D.I., which means that a big part of the tone isn't incorporated in the signal that goes upfront.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Obsolete? I don't think so!

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Yes, you can do gigs ampless with a good PA. I just did a string of gigs ampless because that's what the guy I was subbing for did and I wanted to keep the vibe. But I would so much rather have an amp behind me. My amp isn't just a monitor. It's also how everyone else on stage and the first few rows hears me, and it defines what I want in the PA. It's also running to the PA a lot of the time. Do I enjoy loading out more ampless? Yes I do But some of my gigs go on for hours, and I'd much rather listen to my bass coming out of something good than earbuds and a Buttkicker, so it's worth it to me.

I didn't realise you were quite so tiny next to an 8x10.

 

[klejst]

Heavy big and bulky amps are certainly for me.

 

[popgadget]

Running the sound, I find FOH SO much cleaner when there's no bass bleeding into every stage mic. Combine a silent stage with a quality digital mixer, relatively inexpensive powered speakers, musician-controlled IEMs, and a decent engineer, and it can sound like a giant hi-fi for the audience (room acoustics notwithstanding). All at volumes appropriate for the venue and style of music...

I would say that this echoes my experience. In my experience mixing club level bands, nothing hurts the quality of the bass in the room as much as stage volume and bleed into other mics. This is not to say that an amp on stage is bad, but it certainly must be managed properly to provide the best experience for the audience. While a high quality bass rig might do a better job in the room than the PA, this was a rare occupancy for me, but one that I was open to if it was appropriate.
The underlying question really is- what is the priority, what the bassist hears or what the audience hears.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

My whole band is now on pedals and the alessis e drums and i love it yes its different and i miss the rumble beind me but you can hear everything so clearly and we sound better. Embrace the dark side

I have a couple of Alesis DM5 modules and pads. In a band twenty years ago the drummer added triggers so the acoustic sound could be augmented. But I'm not sure I'd want to replace acoustic drums in most instances if acoustic is an option.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi sanwin17

Thoughts?

Maybe, just maybe, they would be obsolete for gigs-and maybe recording--but what about at home?

I will always need an amp! It' s my stage furniture! (and part of my sound)

At home is the only place, where I don 't need an amp.

At home I can put my beer and the ashtray on a table!

Of course pizzas, no matter where, will always be served on the snare drum!


may the amp be with you

Wise(b)ass

 

[Brian Licinski]

I have a couple of Akesis DM5 modules and pads. In a band twenty years ago the drummer added triggers so the acoustic sound could be augmented. But I'm not sure I'd want to replace acoustic drums in most instances if acoustic is an option.

Our drummer is a heavy hitter very good player but hits hard and the kit he put together was very pricey but makes it all better w less stage volume The true key- our sound man- he is more valuable than ever

 

[Zapp]

This is a good question. 10 years ago we strove against this trend, but I guess we're reluctant converts because the hearers are having a good experience if the sound team knows their business.
And even if the answer to the question were "NO", the fact is that what is HEARD is not exactly what you're cooking unless one takes the time and patience to work with the sound guys to replicate the desired tone, number by number. I know of no one that does that unless in studio.

In every situation I have played in the last several years FOH has controlled the bass, volume and tone. My stage amp, when I have occasion to use one, serves as my personal monitor. This is not only on big stages but also in small clubs when band leader provides sound and mix. FOH always wants the stage volume down so they can control the mix. And yet, it seems almost every day, a new bass amp is out.
Thoughts?

 

[DirkP]

To truly be satisfying, bass must be visceral, not just aural.
The first time you experience a superior sound reinforcement system with extended bass response, the sympathetic vibrations in your torso will take you by surprise. Perhaps they will be accompanied by a chill running up and down your spine. This is the sought after response, for both you and the audience.
This cannot occur with just IEMs, or floor wedges.
Transferring the primary duties to FOH, subs, or sidefills is not "obsoleting" the bass amp, those items have now become the bass amp. You may personally travel lighter by only bringing a pre amp/Di, in rack or pedal form, but someone has to bring the "racks and stacks" to push dat bass onstage and FOH.
We used to say "The bass ain't snappin' til your pant leg's flappin'", and used SVT's and Acoustic 370's to prove it. Thankfully reason has prevailed, and the trend now is to keep stage volume under control, but the thrill of experiencing "live" music is the physical reaction to gut shaking, spine tingling BASS.
This has an intoxicating effect on audience members of both sexes, perhaps affecting females more pronouncedly . It spurs them to dance, folds them into the music, "primes the pump" (if you will), and will never occur if the audience is just wearing earbuds.
No way.
Solid, deep, resonant, extended bass, and a shot of kick drum punch are what unceasingly drag them to the dance floor.
So, until we can remotely tap into the central nervous system, there will always be a need for an electro-acoustic transducer, and associated power supply, of sufficient effectiveness to reach that CNS through vibratory excitation.
And that, my friends, is the definition of a bass amp!

This is the reason, Pleasureboards were invented...

 

[DirkP]

Maybe, just maybe, they would be obsolete for gigs-and maybe recording--but what about at home?

At home I use nearfield monitors and a Pleasureboard. Good for my ears and the neighbours.