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Are bass amps obsolete?
- Thread starter sanwin17
- Start date
Dude, I am so with you. Both of my current projects are using IEM's (Classic rock cover band, and original new country). We upgraded our PA so that I could DI into it, but I REALLY miss having my organs displaced with the bass frequencies of a 6x10 behind me. I'm at a point now where I only wear one IEM to hear my own vocals, and have started bringing a bass amp to gigs again. Nothing like IEM's to suck the "fun" out of playing bass.
I prefer to play without an amp. I never liked the way it feels.
At home I play with headphones through a mix consol. My bass, preamp and pedals do the job of tone and EQ. It works just fine and I can hear everything clear.
When playing live it happens way too often that you can't hear the amp the other side of the drummer or everything is stupid loud because it has to to hear ourselves and for the audiance ... but man no wonder many end up deaf.
I like to play classical or jazz because you don't need ear plug in order to not be deaf and those group just sound good. Everything else need that compression and cleaness like a recording and so going ampless for the whole band is quite interesting.
I've saw Dream Theater whom all play without an amp on stage it sounds perfectly fine and they are in and do a good show.
this is a band from Quebec where I live ... doing their original stuff and they still don't play with amp ...
And now a way bigger band ...
If those two can do it why not everyone ?
Are cover band gig at low in the food chain of live music ?
At home I play with headphones through a mix consol. My bass, preamp and pedals do the job of tone and EQ. It works just fine and I can hear everything clear.
When playing live it happens way too often that you can't hear the amp the other side of the drummer or everything is stupid loud because it has to to hear ourselves and for the audiance ... but man no wonder many end up deaf.
I like to play classical or jazz because you don't need ear plug in order to not be deaf and those group just sound good. Everything else need that compression and cleaness like a recording and so going ampless for the whole band is quite interesting.
I've saw Dream Theater whom all play without an amp on stage it sounds perfectly fine and they are in and do a good show.
this is a band from Quebec where I live ... doing their original stuff and they still don't play with amp ...
And now a way bigger band ...
If those two can do it why not everyone ?
Are cover band gig at low in the food chain of live music ?
Chef
In Memoriam
Stage volume down so sound guy can control FOH: always a yes.
Are bass amps dead: nope.
IEMS: cool, when done right, especially for vocals. They don't have to mean the end of stage amps.
YMMV, etc.
If it means never having to listen to a guitarist insist he's "turned down" a rig that is still as loud as a jet engine, leaving an empty venue in its wake, I will happily and forever never use an amp again.
Had enough of the guitar god. On so many levels.
Had enough of the guitar god. On so many levels.
I think amps are like vinyl records and paper books; you could make a case for their obsolescence, but a lot of people still just plain like them. So long as enough people like them to keep manufacturers in business, whether they’re obsolete will remain strictly a matter of personal opinion.
Before you know it, we’ll have electric instruments in music!
The times they are a-changin’...
The times they are a-changin’...
I agree it’s true to some degree for me. I have focused much more on basses, strings, and pedals in recent years than amps. 99% of our shows I run my Avalon U5 di to FOH. Once a year or so we play a gig which for whatever reason (knowingly for a small acoustic set or just a poorly booked gig) bass doesn’t go through the pa at all.
Basically for me my rig is mainly a personal monitor. I don’t have any serious interest in new cabs. I use ampeg classic series cabs (810e, 410he, and 15) and have been the last 15 or 16 years) what little interest I have in new cabs like the neo stuff and boutique stuff tends to go away when I look at the prices of new cabs and resale value of the cabs I have. Why sell cabs I’m comfortable with for next to nothing and then pay like $1,400- $2k or more for cabs that I might not even like?
Amp wise I think the only incentives to buy a new amp for me are to simplify setup and haul and also a lot of newer amps have better xlr outs now that it’s more the standard thing to use. Some of my favorite older amps like the SVT have xlr outs that are kind of meh. But it was the industry standard back when soundguys used to mic the bass rig. These days I rarely get a mic and if I do it’s on top of an xlr. I honestly can’t remember the last time they only ran a mic. I’d guess it was maybe over 5 years ago now. The Darkglass Alpha/omega 900 is very interesting to me because it would simplify both my gigging and at home headphone practice setups while still getting me in the same ballpark tone wise as the alpha omega pedal into the Avalon are now. But as far as the simplifying headphone practice these are features I’m starting to see on a lot of new amplifiers. The Mesa D800 and D800+ also come to mind for example. Back in the day the amps you’d gig with didn’t have stuff like headphone jacks or aux input jacks. Those features were really only found on small combo/practice amps back then. Now you don’t really need a gigging rig and practice rig.
In the case of stadium gigs in the 70's, yeah you had a wall of speakers around a stage. On the stage itself you would still see the amps on the stage and only a few of them would be live. The rest would be false fronts. Looks like a wall of Marshalls from the front but behind them it was mostly just false frames with perhaps a full stack or two of the real thing.
HOWEVER, I toured nightclubs throughout the West and Mid-West heavily during the early 70's (5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year for 3-years) and almost NONE of the clubs had PA systems. AND the ones that did used it only for vocals, not instrument reinforcement. We brought a Kustom K300 PA system with us that we used only for vocals.
I found out very quickly that my 50-watt 1966 Fender Bassman (last year of the blackface) wasn't up to the task for some of the large venues and outdoor events we played. So I bought a Standel MCIIb/SAM30b piggy back amp with a 2x15 ported and powered speaker cab (200 to 250-watts, don't remember which) and blew the doors off of everything. Never had any more trouble playing anywhere inside or outside and was never asked to turn it up again. Ran it at 3 o'clock indoors and 5 o'clock for big outdoor events. Speakers were perfectly matched to the amp and used to flutter my bell-bottoms if I stood within 3 to 4-feet of it.
So back then you brought everything with you that you needed and you better have brought everything you could possibly need because the clubs didn't have it. Monitors were these cool things that you only saw at Stadium gigs. If a PA was provided it was either the Shure Vocalmaster PA towers or the Kustom PA columns (two 12's and three 10's in each column), and they were only for vocals.
Now days, a fair number of places have their own FOH systems and some of them even have people who know how to run them. Monitors are nice as long as they put everyone through them so you can hear the mix, and they are loud enough for you to hear while performing.
I still don't think Bass Amps are going to disappear anytime in the near future. Even if they only end up being a stage monitor for you, you'll know what sound you are sending out. I'll send out a post-EQ DI signal to a board, or they'll can mic my speakers if they like. In any case, it's not up to the sound guy to "adjust" my sound. I dial-in my sound - he needs to compensate for any room anomalies and reinforce that sound.
I'll still take a bass amp capable of filling the venue up with my sound. Yes, I'll bring a smaller set-up for a small venue but my DNS-410 will fill any place up that I need and then some (get asked to turn-down a LOT).
Why do guitarists get to decide they need a HayseedFuchsBrunoDeluxeAC30SuperSilvertoneMarshallOrangeMesa and our bass specific gear is a monitor? Monitors don’t sound like my amp. Few can reproduce my sound. I ask to be taken out of the monitors. Think bassists are obsolete then samples will take over and we can stay home. This is how disco took over.
Solution: Play like you mean it. Move like you mean it. Sound unique but be yourself.
This. 99% of my gigs our BL brings his small PA for vocals only. Everyone else is responsible for their own sound.
Somebody buy a copy of: Invalid Link Removed
Then let us know if you break it down to a Yes/No answer ...
Then let us know if you break it down to a Yes/No answer ...
Why do guitarists get to decide they need a HayseedFuchsBrunoDeluxeAC30SuperSilvertoneMarshallOrangeMesa and our bass specific gear is a monitor? Monitors don’t sound like my amp. Few can reproduce my sound. I ask to be taken out of the monitors. Think bassists are obsolete then samples will take over and we can stay home. This is how disco took over.
Solution: Play like you mean it. Move like you mean it. Sound unique but be yourself.
As a practical matter, mic'ing and getting a good mix off of a bass amp is harder, so if 99.9% of what the audience is hearing is you DI'd through a PA, then a monitor would give you the most accurate reproduction of what you sound like to the audience. Ideally, I like getting mic'd and running a DI, but that isn't always in the cards. I'm also OK knowing that what I "hear" onstage is just for me; if I sound like my tone, then I'll play like I normally do. The rest is in the hands of god/soundperson; gotta learn to let go!
Are Bass Amps Obsolete?
I hope that day never comes..looking at the whole overall picture that would suck...technology is great for making better gear but not to eliminate it..I hope that in the future everyone can have the choices needed to satisfy their needs and specific gig...whether it be little amp,big amp or no amp. Rock on
I hope that day never comes..looking at the whole overall picture that would suck...technology is great for making better gear but not to eliminate it..I hope that in the future everyone can have the choices needed to satisfy their needs and specific gig...whether it be little amp,big amp or no amp. Rock on
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My band has invested in a good PA with excellent FOH control and there is essentially no need for a bass amp any more for me. I have brought my amp to an outdoor venue just in case it was needed. I did use it but in reality it probably was not necessary.
I play through a Sansamp programmable bass driver directly into the PA. Our board has built in wi-fi and provides a stereo (with effects) monitor mix fully adjustable on my Ipad. I've invested in good molded in-ears monitors and the mix is incredible. We use an ambient mic to capture the crowd. Settings are saved for the next time we play in the same room.
The "guitar god" who used to play stereo through two different mic'd amps on either side of the stage (talk about sound wash) has now been humbled which is a definite benefit.
We've taken an hour of our setup and my back and ears are much happier. I would never go back unless forced to. In fact, I've thought twice about taking on another band because I don't want to go back to wedges and temporary deafness. This is the future guys.
I play through a Sansamp programmable bass driver directly into the PA. Our board has built in wi-fi and provides a stereo (with effects) monitor mix fully adjustable on my Ipad. I've invested in good molded in-ears monitors and the mix is incredible. We use an ambient mic to capture the crowd. Settings are saved for the next time we play in the same room.
The "guitar god" who used to play stereo through two different mic'd amps on either side of the stage (talk about sound wash) has now been humbled which is a definite benefit.
We've taken an hour of our setup and my back and ears are much happier. I would never go back unless forced to. In fact, I've thought twice about taking on another band because I don't want to go back to wedges and temporary deafness. This is the future guys.
Awesome!
But it’s not for everyone. The car has been around for over a century, and some still ride horses! I’m glad they do.
It’s great to have freedom of choice.
Oh im sure most know regular monitors suck for bass that’s why some of us call our rigs our “bass monitor” because we aren’t putting any bass in the wedges so it’s the only place on stage other than bleedover from foh or in ears that the bass is actually coming from.Why do guitarists get to decide they need a HayseedFuchsBrunoDeluxeAC30SuperSilvertoneMarshallOrangeMesa and our bass specific gear is a monitor? Monitors don’t sound like my amp. Few can reproduce my sound. I ask to be taken out of the monitors. Think bassists are obsolete then samples will take over and we can stay home. This is how disco took over.
Solution: Play like you mean it. Move like you mean it. Sound unique but be yourself.
