Are Class D amps really 5 times less powerful than A/B?

[byacey]

Ok, that might be true but can you name any Class D bass amps with analog power sections? I can't think of a single one. Most every Class D is digital.

Class D is PWM analog. Nothing digital about it.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Class D amps just don't waste their time producing a ton of heat.

 

[mbell75]

Class D is PWM analog. Nothing digital about it.

Then why does every Class D combo bass amp have a digital power section?

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Some people can't hear a difference between analog and digital, you are clearly one of those people. Im sure you prefer streaming music to vinyl too

Now it's vinyl? Are you just trolling?

 

[DWBass]

NO SUCH THING AS A DIGITAL AMP!! Stop spreading misinformation!

 

[DWBass]

Then why does every Class D combo bass amp have a digital power section?

No such thing. Where are you getting your information!

 

[InhumanResource]

Some people can't hear a difference between analog and digital, you are clearly one of those people. Im sure you prefer streaming music to vinyl too

Such tripe. The discerning listener only uses wax cylinders played through diesel fired amplifiers.

 

[byacey]

Then why does every Class D combo bass amp have a digital power section?

Marketing. Many people equate something labeled digital as a superior product. Just like cars in the 60s were marketed as being something of the space age era.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

When it comes to watts at least. Was watching a video with the President of Boss talking about the new Boss Katana bass amps. Him and the interviewer were saying that while the 60 watt 1x10 and 160 watt 2x10 amps sounded low in watts, you have to account for the fact that you need 5 times the watts for a digital Class D amp to match an analog A/B amp. So using Class D ratings equivalency, that would make the 1x10 a 300 watt amp and the 2x10 an 800 watt amp?

No.

 

[mbell75]

No such thing. Where are you getting your information!

Ok, I have asked 3 people and none have replied, maybe you can help. Name me at least one Class D combo bass amp that has an analog power section rather than digital.

 

[Wasnex]

When it comes to watts at least. Was watching a video with the President of Boss talking about the new Boss Katana bass amps. Him and the interviewer were saying that while the 60 watt 1x10 and 160 watt 2x10 amps sounded low in watts, you have to account for the fact that you need 5 times the watts for a digital Class D amp to match an analog A/B amp. So using Class D ratings equivalency, that would make the 1x10 a 300 watt amp and the 2x10 an 800 watt amp?

Here's my guess. Boss and Roland are under the same umbrella. If you look at the specs for amps like the Roland Cube Street EX, which is rated at 50W, the performance is more like a 12W amp.

I suspect they are using Peak power. So the amp might make 12.5W continuous and be capable of producing short bursts of 25W RMS. 25W RMS is the same thing as 50W Peak. So an amp that is really 12.5W RMS continuous is given a 50W power rating, but they don't tell you it's a Peak power rating.

Off the top of my head, I believe I own three Class D amps, but none of them are compact.

• Ampeg SVT 8-Pro is rated 1,300W at 4 ohms
• Epifani UL902C is rated at 900W at 4 ohms X 2
• Jule Monique 700 is rated at 700W at 4 ohms

I use the power reduction circuit on the 8-Pro. This circuit introduces compression and distortion so the amp sounds and feels more like a vintage SVT. When Power Reduction is engaged, the gain staging limits how high I can turn up the preamp gain before the circuit produces excessive distortion. This makes it seem like the amp is not very powerful. But if I bypass the Power Reduction circuit, I can crank the preamp Gain and the power comes on much more quickly, although it's not as authentic to the SVT sound and feel. I have never felt like I am approach clipping with this amp, even though I run the Master and Power Reduction levels near max. Even with the Power Reduction engaged and set up as described, the amp is way louder than my vintage SVTs.

The UL902C is pretty much big clean power. The lows seems a little soft and woolly for my taste, but I think that is just they way the amp is tuned. Never felt like I was approaching clipping and one side of the amp pushes my cabs plenty hard.

I was actually surprised by the Monique 700 as it clips at a lower volume than I expected. This amp sounds fabulous and get's way louder than I would ever need. It sounds great all the way up to the point where clipping occurs. The clipping is rather sudden and unmusical, and IMHO should be avoided.

 

[DWBass]

Ok, I have asked 3 people and none have replied, maybe you can help. Name me at least one Class D combo bass amp that has an analog power section rather than digital.

ALL of them! Not sure this is a serious thread!!

 

[groovepump]

Ok. Again, every class D combo bass amp Im aware of has a digital power section. Give me some examples of class D combo bass amps with analog power sections. Thanks

It's the output section ...the amplifier that's class D. Class D IS THE OUTPUT POWER SECTION as well as a switching power supply (which is also PWM, but designed to NOT be modulated by ripple, . . . just keep a steady output voltage).

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

A watt is a watt, regardless be it tube, A/B, Class D.

The better question is are modern manufacturers fudging their power ratings?
I can tell you through the same 8 ohm cab, my old mark III peavey bass head is a lot louder than my Trace Elliot Elf despite them having similar power ratings (actually I believe the old peavy is less powerful at 8ohm than the trace is rated)

No. I truly believe that it just has to do with how the signal is processed. In and out.

My 100w tube amp, at half volume, and 1/3 gain, is louder, cleaner, and far beefier than my 200w mosfet amp maxed out. In fact, when you max out a solid state head, they don't like it. They tend to clip, and start overheating very fast. Then, goodbye.

What sucks about that, is that Class D amps don't start to open up til you're over halfway on the master. They're weak and frail sounding til then. So, there's that sweet spot on Class D amps, just like everything else, where you get the best product the amp can give you. Little more, bad. Little less, frail.

They all have a character of their own. Any amp is like an instrument. As you spend time with it, you figure out how it plays, and you learn how to get what you want from it.

Tube or solid, it's all the same.

A watt is a watt. Power is power. Heat is heat.

I believe the differences are in the processing between amps. They all play differently. All of them.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Such tripe. The discerning listener only uses wax cylinders played through diesel fired amplifiers.

Flac through USB baby

 

[abarson]

Ok, that might be true but can you name any Class D bass amps with analog power sections? I can't think of a single one. Most every Class D is digital.

"D" does not mean "digital". "D" refers to the topology, and comes after A, B, and A/B but before H. Although the audio waveform is converted to pulses before amplification, these don't represent "0's" and "1's" in the digital sense.
Most of today's amps use a switched power supply, which might also account for some thinking that the amp is "digital", which it isn't.

 

[groovepump]

A lot of the rating of these amplifiers is all marketing crap. I see it when the amplifier's rated at, maybe 200 watts, but when you look at the AC input rating, the input current multiplied by the voltage is nowhere near the output rating. A 200W class-D amp may have an input rating at 40W. The damned thing can't produce more power than it gets from the wall. Class D amps are maybe 90-95% efficient (my guess) which means they will produce less "power" than they consume. Sometimes the mfr gives output wattage rating as the maximum current the amp can deliver under a short circuit (maybe for a millisecond or whatever) and mutipliplies that by the voltage rail of the amp (maybe it's 100VDC, or whatever). So you get a ficticious "power " rating of the amp that is impossible to pass on as usable output watts. It's marketing crap.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Once again, Watt is not a unit of sound level.

Exactly

 

[arbiterusa]

Name me at least one Class D combo bass amp that has an analog power section rather than digital.

Literally all of them. "D" does not mean digital. My GK MB500 has an analog power section. Markbass has analog power sections.

The first class D amplifiers, incidentally, were built for experimental radio transmission, and were tube amps.

 

[Wasnex]

@mbell75. The first time I compared a solid-state amp to a tube amp I was surprised by how much louder the solid-state amp was. I have repeated the experiment many times over the years and the tube amps have yet to win the SPL battle.

I believe my collection currently includes 32 amps (tube, hybrid, and solid-state).

I currently own amps with solid state output sections ranging in power from 360W to 2,500W.

I own tube amps with output sections ranging from 12.5W to 427W.

The volume the tube amps make falls in line with these power ratings: 12.5W, 30W, 100W, 200W, 300W, 400W etc. But there is variation between the amps at each of these power ratings. At 100W my Hylight era Hiwatt DR103 is clearly the loudest. I don't actually know which of my 200W tube amps is the loudest, but I am reasonably certain my Matchless Thunderchief puts out less power than all of my other 200W tube amps. In the 300W category, my Ashdown CTM300 is slightly louder than my vintage SVTs. In the 400W category, my Ashdown 427 is top dog.

At the lowest end of the solid-state spectrum, my GK 2000RB is rated for 360W per channel at 4 ohms and my 700RB is rated for 380W at 4 ohms. Both are a bit louder than my 300W tubes amps, but not quite as loud as the big Ashdown 427. All of my class D amps are louder than the GKs.