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Are DJs Musicians?
- Thread starter Jazzdogg
- Start date
I think it's fair to call them artists, in that what constitutes art is very broad. Musicians, they are not, IMO.
No, musicians hire producers to sound like their musical vision.
DJ's mangle that.
They are anti-musicians.
DJ's are to musicians what boom-cars are to audio.
DJ's mangle that.
They are anti-musicians.
DJ's are to musicians what boom-cars are to audio.
I can see where you're coming from. There is a racist trope that gets nervous in the elevator when hip hop gets in. But that is not the only reason for people to dislike it. Most people on this site come from a time b4 hip hop. And many struggle to understand how something so different to the art they spent years learning can be considered a form of music. In fact I'd suggest that plenty of them feel that calling hip hop music somehow diminishes what they do. Which is not racist in and of itself. Most of those people revere jazz. Another music that grew out of the African American experience.
Long story short, I think you're mistaking ageism for racism. Racism is a complex subject that scares the crap out of most people. I doubt you'll get a satisfactory discussion of it on this board. OTOH there are so many knowledgeable bassists on here you can learn from....
If Paris Hilton can show up at a club and perform your job, you aren't a musician
What about beginner bassists that can only play root notes and doesn’t have the best timing?
That’s what Paris Hilton is compared to talented DJs
So either...
1) you’re implying all DJs are one race
2) you’re implying DJs are their own race
3) you’re just trolling. so which is it?
There is a pernicious, racist trope that "hip hop isn't real music" and "MCs and DJs aren't real musicians."
True, there have been successful MCs and DJs of all races. But let's be real: Like blues, jazz and R&B, hip hop has its roots as an African-American art form, and to declare it's "not music" is a culturally and racially loaded statement.
But Herbie Hancock performed with a DJ at the 1984 Grammy awards! I can't believe we are still having this debate in 2020. If Herbie thinks DJs are musicians then that's good enough for me.
I mean, Leonard Bernstein basically stood in one place, silently waving a wooden baton in the air. Paris Hilton can do that too! But nobody argues that Bernstein was "not a musician."
A hip hop DJ is like the conductor of an orchestra. They set the tempo, mood and dynamics. Pioneering DJs like Grandmaster Flash, Jam Master J, and Terminator X were as influential in shaping the sound of modern music as Leonard Bernstein.
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There is a pernicious, racist trope that "hip hop isn't real music" and "MCs and DJs aren't real musicians."
True, there have been successful MCs and DJs of all races. But let's be real: Like blues, jazz and R&B, hip hop has its roots as an African-American art form, and to declare it's "not music" is a culturally and racially loaded statement.
But Herbie Hancock performed with a DJ at the 1984 Grammy awards! I can't believe we are still having this debate in 2020. If Herbie thinks DJs are musicians then that's good enough for me.
I mean, Leonard Bernstein stood in one place, silently waving a wooden baton in the air. Paris Hilton can do that too! But nobody argues that Bernstein was "not a musician."
A hip hop DJ is like the conductor of an orchestra. They set the tempo, mood and dynamics. The top DJs like DJ Run and Terminator X were as influential on the sound of modern music as Leonard Bernstein.
A dj is playing someone else's music. No matter how you present it, it was created by someone else,.... a musician...
A rapper is writing lyrics and working his beats. He is an artist... closer to a poet than a musician, but definitely an artist.
Let me run it down for you why your valid point is counterproductive. Racism, or fear of otherness, is a risk-averse survival mechanism that evolved in all of us long before we came down out the trees. Black, white brown or yellow. Beneath our civilised exterior that rejects racism the genes still make the heart race in the elevator listed above. And yet society would have us believe that racist are only one step up from child molesters. Which is why talk of racism makes so many people very uncomfortable and then on to defensive. It's kind of funny. I know I can be racist and actively work to counter those impulses. Whereas the good folk who take society's proscription at face value don't have a way to address the conundrum.
The point being that while your statement may be true for some of the people some of the time (and nobody got a flow that's dumber than mine) nobody is going to think it applies to them. Instead they will be deeply offended like you dropped your R-bomb on them personally. The general temperature will rise and the thread will get closed. Everybody loses except confirmation bias, itself.
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Your logic is skewed if you think that, just because x person dismisses hip-hop on racist grounds, y person’s dismissal of hip-hop must be racist. The truth is, there is a lot to dislike about a lot of hip-hop - and I say that as a hip-hop fan (albeit a very selective one). Furthermore, it seems pretty clear to me that a lot of the people here are thinking more in terms of EDM DJs and/or run-of-the-mill club type DJs rather than hip-hop DJs when they comment.There is a pernicious, racist trope that "hip hop isn't real music" and "MCs and DJs aren't real musicians."
True, there have been successful MCs and DJs of all races. But let's be real: Like blues, jazz and R&B, hip hop has its roots as an African-American art form, and to declare it's "not music" is a culturally and racially loaded statement.
But Herbie Hancock performed with a DJ at the 1984 Grammy awards! I can't believe we are still having this debate in 2020. If Herbie thinks DJs are musicians then that's good enough for me.
I mean, Leonard Bernstein basically stood in one place, silently waving a wooden baton in the air. Paris Hilton can do that too! But nobody argues that Bernstein was "not a musician."
A hip hop DJ is like the conductor of an orchestra. They set the tempo, mood and dynamics. Pioneering DJs like Grandmaster Flash, Jam Master J, and Terminator X were as influential in shaping the sound of modern music as Leonard Bernstein.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,222
- 45,010
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Yes, there are many, many types of DJ's.
If this continues down the "if you disagree with my musical taste and beliefs you must be racist" path I will start citing people.
If this continues down the "if you disagree with my musical taste and beliefs you must be racist" path I will start citing people.
When a huge portion of the commercial music market found its roots with skilled mcs and djs in black communities, I totally get how the question and some responses here feel dismissive and anti-Black (and not just "old-fashioned" based on age), so I don't see a post mentioning racism as trolling.
Use of a turntable as a musical instrument is a part of the Black American musical experience, whether folks are aware of that or not. That's *not* saying all DJs are black, which is silly and not what the poster said. I think it's more telling that some people are saying DJs aren't musicians period, but I'm not deleting them as trolling. I just have a different opinion.
edit: To be clear, I’m not calling people that disagree racist, but I get why someone might feel that way and I don’t see it as trolling, even though I disagree with the word choice.
Use of a turntable as a musical instrument is a part of the Black American musical experience, whether folks are aware of that or not. That's *not* saying all DJs are black, which is silly and not what the poster said. I think it's more telling that some people are saying DJs aren't musicians period, but I'm not deleting them as trolling. I just have a different opinion.
edit: To be clear, I’m not calling people that disagree racist, but I get why someone might feel that way and I don’t see it as trolling, even though I disagree with the word choice.
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