Are IEM Receivers Interchangeable with Other Brands?

[DJWhitJr]

My bandmate posed that question last night and I wasn’t entirely sure.

We are using the AudioTechnica ATW-3255 units which cover the entire usable UHF range. Would he have the ability to use the body pack with a different transmitter? For example a Shure or Sennheiser unit if he was sitting in with another band.

My thought was you could tune the body pack to the transmitters frequency but wasn’t sure if there are proprietary settings which would create problems.

My other thought is you would need a similar models body pack to scan the open frequencies.

 

[drpepper]

Pretty sure that as a practical matter, that'd be a no. While there can be some specific instances where there is enough of a match between band and tuning steps to allow some functionality after manually tuning to the same frequency (I've seen systems for sale with supposedly compatible receivers of different brand or series), that's not enough the say that's generally the case.

 

[jTrolt]

^ I agree.
I just burned a solid grand for an updated Sure system and still having dropouts and regular interference issues. Re-scanning every venue is a must.
I shudder to think of showing up to a gig using an odd mix of brands, given the virtual traffic jam of the airwaves these days.

 

[ceetee]

I don't think there's an industry standard. Mixing may work, may not work. Needs to be tested for any given combination but my knowledge about working with them isn't up to date and I only tried it once. Don't remember which devices but brands were Sennheiser and Sure. We managed to get a signal but the single Sure hat nasty interferences and cut outs. That was about 12 years ago.

 

[Wasnex]

Might work with some analog units. If it works, it may not work well. I suspect it probably won't work at all with digital. AFAIK AudioTechnica ATW-3255 is digital.

 

[BaltBass5]

It’s not going to work. I use AT and my bandmates use Senn. We tried this by doing a manual tune of both transmitter and receiver just to see if it was an option in a pinch and it will not work.

 

[DJWhitJr]

It’s not going to work. I use AT and my bandmates use Senn. We tried this by doing a manual tune of both transmitter and receiver just to see if it was an option in a pinch and it will not work.

Interesting, so there must be some proprietary or unique functions between different brands. Otherwise one wound think tuning into a frequency would pickup what’s being transmitted like a radio.

 

[Wasnex]

Interesting, so there must be some proprietary or unique functions between different brands. Otherwise one wound think tuning into a frequency would pickup what’s being transmitted like a radio.

There are lots of potential ways different radio systems can work. The operating frequency is just one of many parameters to consider.

 

[mark286]

^^+1

MSEE here with work experience in wireless communications. None of the major suppliers support inter-brand compatibility AFAIK. Proprietary protocols enforce brand/system lock-in by using unique signaling, encoding, and often encryption schemes, so devices from different brands generally do not interoperate.

For example, while Sennheiser is primarily an analog system (i.e., analog signal modulated onto a UHF carrier), it uses a pilot tone squelch system to reduce interference and provide clean reception on a selected frequency. Other manufacturers use communication schemes, including signaling, encoding, and sometimes encryption methods that are unique and proprietary to that manufacturer. So it is insufficient by itself to merely share a common radio frequency. The common frequency lets the transmitter and receiver "hear" each other, but none of the messaging can be understood and a proper communications session between the devices is never established.

 

[GroovinOnFunk]

No. Shure transmitters won't work with Sennheiser receivers.

 

[el murdoque]

what @drpepper said in the first answer sums it up.
While there might be special instances where one can make it work (with the right combination of receiver and transmitter), this could not be seen as a practical method. So the answer is "Maybe, on paper, you'd find this is possible, but you won't find it working reliably enough to use as IEM at all"

I have a Behringer P2 in my bag. Should I find myself playing with a band that uses different IEM tech, I have the option of going wired.

 

[DJWhitJr]

what @drpepper said in the first answer sums it up.
While there might be special instances where one can make it work (with the right combination of receiver and transmitter), this could not be seen as a practical method. So the answer is "Maybe, on paper, you'd find this is possible, but you won't find it working reliably enough to use as IEM at all"

I have a Behringer P2 in my bag. Should I find myself playing with a band that uses different IEM tech, I have the option of going wired.

We carry P2s for backups too.

 

[el murdoque]

We carry P2s for backups too.

I used mine more often than I care to admit while we were on cheap wireless units. Since we upgraded to Shure PSM300 kits, I've not needed it yet, but in my bag it stays.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Interesting, so there must be some proprietary or unique functions between different brands. Otherwise one wound think tuning into a frequency would pickup what’s being transmitted like a radio.

Virtually all higher quality wireless devices these days uses some method to encode the transmitted information; code division multiplexing (CDM) is most common for digital data transmission. A code is imbedded in the digital data being transmitted and that code “activates” the target receiver. Other receivers on the same frequency that use a different unlock code reject the signal as noise. This is common with cell phones.

In analog, a radio transmission contains a sub-audible tone that activates a target receiver or repeater while other signals on the same frequency without the specific sub-audible tone are ignored.

So the assumption that different brands use a different proprietary method that prevents inter-brand compatibility is generally correct, but those proprietary methods are used more for the reduction / elimination of interference between the transmitter & receiver of the same brand. There are so many wireless signals in the air these days, any receiver open to receive any signal of a specific frequency is usually getting multiple signals at that frequency. That causes interference resulting in noise & dropouts. The solution is to have a transmitted signal also imbedded with some kind of code, tone, or key, that tells the receiver this is the signal to accept.

So, manufacturers make wireless transmitters & receivers that work well together to transfer audio, and the methods used to make them more immune interference, also make them incompatible with other wireless devices. In other words; wireless devices of one brand regard the signals from wireless devices of another brand as interference and are designed to ignore / reject that interference.

A wireless receiver that would receive signals from multiple brands of wireless transmitters would also be more likely to have noise and dropouts due to interference.

 

[DJWhitJr]

Virtually all higher quality wireless devices these days uses some method to encode the transmitted information; code division multiplexing (CDM) is most common for digital data transmission. A code is imbedded in the digital data being transmitted and that code “activates” the target receiver. Other receivers on the same frequency that use a different unlock code reject the signal as noise. This is common with cell phones.

In analog, a radio transmission contains a sub-audible tone that activates a target receiver or repeater while other signals on the same frequency without the specific sub-audible tone are ignored.

So the assumption that different brands use a different proprietary method that prevents inter-brand compatibility is generally correct, but those proprietary methods are used more for the reduction / elimination of interference between the transmitter & receiver of the same brand. There are so many wireless signals in the air these days, any receiver open to receive any signal of a specific frequency is usually getting multiple signals at that frequency. That causes interference resulting in noise & dropouts. The solution is to have a transmitted signal also imbedded with some kind of code, tone, or key, that tells the receiver this is the signal to accept.

So, manufacturers make wireless transmitters & receivers that work well together to transfer audio, and the methods used to make them more immune interference, also make them incompatible with other wireless devices. In other words; wireless devices of one brand regard the signals from wireless devices of another brand as interference and are designed to ignore / reject that interference.

A wireless receiver that would receive signals from multiple brands of wireless transmitters would also be more likely to have noise and dropouts due to interference.

I’m glad I asked. This is great information!

 

[Mike Caldwell]

With analog systems maybe, digital systems no.
At least with the Sennheiser EW IEM body packs you can turn off the pilot tone option in the menu settings, that may allow another transmitter to be received.
I have never tried it but I have enough parts and pieces to give it a test!

If it does pass audio the companding and expansion between brands will almost certainly be different the audio levels would not track the same.
Almost all analog wireless systems will compand / compress the transmission based on level and frequency and at the receiver expanded the signal at the
same ratio is was companded. That's how they can get the usable dynamic range from the system only using a megahertz or less of frequency bandwidth.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Well today I had some free time to do some experimenting!

Shure, Audio Technica and Sennheiser all would receive in any combination one another's RF signal and show the RF levels on the receivers display when tuned to the same operating frequency.

The only receivers that would pass audio from any of the transmitters was Sennheiser and Shure both an IEM pack or wireless mic receiver.
Reason being those receivers have the option to turn off the pilot tone setting, that turned off opens up the receiver for only squelch based muting.
For Sennheiser it's in the receivers set up menu, for Shure depending on model it's in the set up menu, or hold down the mode and set buttons on power up
and there's some with out the option at all.

I did not try the test with music as program audio but just a mic and some test 1 2's, listing with headphones it sounded decent, maybe full music program would make any companding differences between the transmitter and receiver show up more.....or maybe not so much.

So if you are using analog Sennheiser or Shure receivers you could use a different brand transmitter and make it work by turning of the pilot tone option.

 

[s0c9]

I did not try the test with music as program audio but just a mic and some test 1 2's, listing with headphones it sounded decent, maybe full music program would make any companding differences between the transmitter and receiver show up more.....or maybe not so much.

I thought digital (I assumed you tested with their digital units) did not use companding?
But nice write up on the rest. Hopefully, I never need it!

 

[Mike Caldwell]

I thought digital (I assumed you tested with their digital units) did not use companding?
But nice write up on the rest. Hopefully, I never need it!

These were all analog systems used for testing.
I don't have any of the digital IEM systems but I'm going to guess they would not interchange do to the most likely different digital coding specs between systems.