Are Local Venues Killing Music?

[Bunk McNulty]

Side rant:

I was amazed at what a dump the VV was when I finally got there...plus it's a tiny room. Walking to the restroom had you wandering through the empty liquor boxes and that was also the "dressing room". Tickets were not cheap and then there's the two drink minimum.

This is one of the most legendary jazz clubs in the world? Oy vey!

Just about every jazz legend you can think of has played at the Vanguard. They seem able to soldier on despite the unsanitary conditions.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Where I am, people come out specifically to get blasted with volume.

I think that may be part of why doom metal is popular. It's a visceral experience that you just can't really get without going to a show.

Different strokes...if that's your crowd, give 'em what they want!

 

[madbass6]

On Talk Bass we flap our gums a lot about the damage digital streaming has done to the revenues of original artists. But what about the damage being done at the roots of the music biz; the local venue? As a guy trying to play smaller clubs and bars, it seems to me like these guys are doing just as much to stifle the music biz as pirates.
When was the last time you went to a gig not to play, not to see a friend play, or not to see a bigger artist play? When was the last time you wanted to just be at a nearby bar or club? (If there is even a nearby bar or club.) As a consumer, by and large, most of them are dumps I don't want to be at. They are usually in sketchy parts of town with no parking and a weak selection of overpriced drinks served by a salty (at best) employees. Even ones that are only a few years old look decades old. Oh boy, more black and darkwood with red lighting! Will I get a staph infection from the bathroom? Who knows, it is out of order; not that the door really closed anyway. Really the only driver for these places are the live bands.
And how do they treat their live bands? Well, again, no parking. If you if leave your gear in the car it is totally going to get stolen. Loading in is through the small front door everyone is standing in front of. (Don't worry miss; go ahead and block my way while I drag gear that weighs more than you do, around you.) Stairs? Awesome! Is that a stage or two pallets you stacked on top of each other in the corner and painted black? They do such a great job advertising that the only people in there are the people I brought to the show. And for all the hard work they did, obviously they don't need to share the door or bar take with me; a solo cup half filled with Bud Light will pay for my gas and time.
Local venues seem to put zero effort into their appearance or amenities, then complain they aren't making any money. No duh; your venue is unattractive, has no vibe, and is a pain in the backside for customers and bands alike. If these small venues are the birth places of up and coming musicians, and are apathetically slumming their ways towards insolvency, where will the next generation of musicians go to cut their teeth? Where will young men or women go to catch the music bug? Will people want to go live it up at a place that throbs with the aura of necrotizing dreams?
It feels to me like a little paint, a mop, and maybe some working urinals could go a long way to rejuvenate local music scenes. Am I wrong? Am I taking crazy pills here?

so the question is are you wrong or NOT taking enough of your crazy pills? well that depends.. in my opinion, if you're batching on your local club/bar seen that provides your gigs with other musicians/ friends/online etc. then yes! youre crazy! cuz sooner or later the word will spread like wild fire and good luck booking gigs any where ! but if you're just venting here among us TBs then you're rite! regardless don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[Korladis]

Different strokes...if that's your crowd, give 'em what they want!

Oh, we do. Though we're certainly not the loudest band in our scene (that would be Lament Cityscape, who set a Bottom of the Hill venue record at 110db, at the back of the room).

 

[madbass6]

There are clubs in my area that only have live music until midnight, since live music is for 'old people' who go home early. Then, from midnight until 2AM, when all the college kids come out, they'll have a DJ. I thought it was really strange at first, but now I see that it makes sense economically.

Funny thing I overheard the other night at a gig. We were tearing down and these kids were coming into the bar. One of them said, "Oh look, old guys with guitars. They must be a country band." In their view, any music with actual instruments must be 'country'. (Never mind the fact that we play Motown, Soul, and Blues.)

lol..

 

[ihixulu]

Music will never die, it simply takes on new forms.

Mediocre bands kill live music by making it harder for bar owners to justify taking a chance on another band after the mediocres chased out a bar-ful of paying drinkers.

 

[MCS4]

I think it's more accurate to say that people choosing not to go out to see local live music is killing local live music. However, venues (as well as bands) could do things to give a better live music experience, which *might* help reduce (but probably not totally reverse) this trend.

This opinion solely relates to original local music. I don't know anything about the cover band scene or related venues.

 

[petrus61]

....
This, mostly. Adjusted for local markets though. I'm out in BFE (southeastern Illinois), I'm 50, and the "club scene" that did exist here is now mostly dead and gone. But....I'm as busy as I wanna be at this time. Why? Local market demographics. The stuff I play matches how I look and sound. The stuff I play matches other folks of the same demographics. So then, find out if/when/where they hang out, and put yourself in front of them. Adjust scale of sound/lights/staging to match above-listed specifics, and get to work marketing yourself.

For us this means lots of 8-11 gigs on weekends, generally at local Grill 'N Bar places where old (er...) folks go for a late steak/early beer on Saturday night. Match the setlist to the intended audience, starting with the familiar/melodic stuff for the tail end of the "steak" crowd, and increase pace enough to encourage them to have another round and maybe dance a bit when the younger crowd arrives. This generally means we also don't play as loud, don't carry as much/heavy gear, and book venues that have a "safe" reputation for all parties involved. We also do it as a scaled down 3-piece (drums, git, bass), in venues where they usually have acoustic stuff.

Of course there's also outside small-town fests of every variety 6 months out of the year, not to mention private parties (adults, not drunken kid stuff) and we're busy as we wanna be. Main thing is to identify your target audience and go from there.

Pretty much the exact formula used for my busier band. The music can be excruciatingly cliche, the condensing of an originally loud and exciting song into a "quieter" context can be soul crushing and the PA isn't exactly audiophile grade (meaning I don't go direct), but boy, do we get a butt load of work.

 

[socialleper]

so the question is are you wrong or NOT taking enough of your crazy pills? well that depends.. in my opinion, if you're batching on your local club/bar seen that provides your gigs with other musicians/ friends/online etc. then yes! youre crazy! cuz sooner or later the word will spread like wild fire and good luck booking gigs any where ! but if you're just venting here among us TBs then you're rite! regardless don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I'm trying to see if other people are experiencing the same thing as me.
If I lived in a little podunk town I might be worried about getting blacklisted. I'm the bass player (which we all know how that goes) of one of a hundred bands in a city with dozens of venues. I've been very careful not to single out any one particular venue; not that the venues book the shows ("promoters" do) or would read TB, or would remember my band's name even if they did the homework to find out who I play for. That would take effort. I think we've established that effort isn't a high priority for a lot of these guys.

 

[KickingBass]

Hmm..

I think that if you're smart there are a ton more options.

I've noticed that venues have changed... IF you're loud and big... those days are gone.

If you're smart and understand you're part of the cloud of entertainment, there are tons of opportunities.

Full bands -- yes that ship has passed.

I'm afraid you may be right.

 

[petrus61]

Music will never die, it simply takes on new forms.

Mediocre bands kill live music by making it harder for bar owners to justify taking a chance on another band after the mediocres chased out a bar-ful of paying drinkers.

Yep. They get to play rock star to an empty room while securing themselves and anyone else willing to play for free wings a steady stream of gigs (rehearsals).

 

[Thumb n Fingers]

I don't think the audience for live music is shrinking nearly as much as TB folks think. I do think that it might be shifting away from the kind of live music that lots of TB members play, however.

THIS ^

The popularity of live music varies in different regions, and by genre. And its an ever-changing landscape. As musicians, I suppose it's up to us to read the tea leaves and either (A) adjust with the direction of the wind, or (B) decide"this" is the only kind of music I'm going to play. If you choose (B), I admire your dedication to whatever it is you're doing, but I suspect the gigs could get scarce at times.

 

[morgan138]

DJ's are taking over? I think someone said that in 1976.

SERIOUSLY. Although technically I think it was disco that really killed rock & roll back then? RIP rock music, we hardly knew ye

 

[Joedog]

OP's premise is too simplistic. SOME venues are killing the scene at THIER place, but not on purpose of course. Either they don't have the $$$ or the knowledge to become a thriving venue. Many others DO know how to run a decent club/bar and thousands of them are doing it all across the country. Thousands aren't. I can walk from a club that is packed, to one that is almost deserted in a couple of minutes. People flock to the good ones, and tend to avoid the horrible ones. Many venues are somewhere in the middle, getting by to one degree or another. Yes being run down can be one reason there is not a great scene there, but just one of potentially many, most of which fall under the umbrella of "bad management".

Like in any business, some make it, some don't. And as said in various posts above, in general folks aren't going out and partying these days as much, for reasons already stated. There are exceptions, such as touristy areas, and some of the "hip" cities.

 

[lermgalieu]

Lots of local joints have always been like this. In actuality, you are just getting old and noticing.

 

[lermgalieu]

I really don't care, unless the place is literally dangerous. I drink bottled beer and wash my hands after I go to the bathroom. If the music's good, I'm good with almost anything. Although I was at a open mic a couple of weeks ago an some guys were literally standing in front of the urinal for like an hour smoking meth or crack or something - that was somewhat disturbing, but they moved aside. I went back in like an hour later and one of the guys was STILL in there, but by then he was standing in front of the mirror, splashing water on his face and literally talking to himself. Drugs are bad mmmmmmk?

 

[KickingBass]

I feel like I'd laugh if I went to a typical old guy show and saw people dancing because I'm not even familiar with how that looks. What songs are people dancing to and how do they do it? I'm very familiar with moshing but I'm genuinely curious about the other stuff.

 

[bryan gibson]

Pretty much the exact formula used for my busier band. The music can be excruciatingly cliche, the condensing of an originally loud and exciting song into a "quieter" context can be soul crushing and the PA isn't exactly audiophile grade (meaning I don't go direct), but boy, do we get a butt load of work.

These can be pitfalls, true. We're still using electric guitar, electric bass, and acoustic drums, but with combo's instead of stacks. PA is a nice Bose system with vocals (and a bit of kick) brought up to a usable volume. Songlist is the tricky part, but can be a fairly easy hurdle to overcome. You just have to know what will translate into a power-trio format. FWIW, a lot of the newer stuff out there (country and singer/songwriter pop) can work pretty well if you have some arranging skills

 

[Bullitt5135]

This is the typical weary response I get from local venues around here who book bands... "What kind of music do you play? (me: modern & classic rock covers, just what your place is known for). Uh huh. How many people can you bring in? (me: we averaged 50-90 friends and family per gig last year on top of the regular crowd – I can give you references to back that up). Hmm...yeah, well, umm...we usually book 3 months out, and I think our calendar is full right now." As he goes back to hopelessly flirting with the bartender.

It's NEVER "Tell me about your band -- can I see hear a demo? Where have you guys played before, and can you provide references? What sets you apart, and why should I book you? This is what we pay, and this is what we expect from our bands. If that works for you, I'll grab my calendar and see if I can find you a spot."

I'll keep dreaming.

 

[Ulf Buck]

A few months ago I was at a venue we play at frequently watching another band. This place has a clean toilet,a great stage, killer house PA, cool owner, and clientele. I was handing drinks to my wife and my singer who were with me and out of the corner of my eye I saw a guy staggering towards us with his hand over his mouth.

My lightning fast reflexes instantly had me raise my hand which was promptly covered in vomit. As his hand was over his mouth puke spewed in multiple directions. The rest painted the back of my singer and some ricocheted off my hand and onto my wife. About five others were sprayed. My singer promptly removed her shirt and and reappeared in her bra (true trouper). Someone gave her a band shirt and the night went on.

So for me, cigarette smoke, stale beer, and yes, even the faint aroma of old puke are the things rock and roll memories are made of. Good times.