Are modern amps "harsher"?

[mesaplayer83]

This is what I'm struggling with now. The Kemper is the same cost as the Fender SB 300. The Kemper may, and I say may, give me every amp I want to try/use right in my own home. BUT, is it good enough to fool me enough to skip the tube head.
I'll be testing this out at Sweetwaters Gearfest in a few months. I've already planned the audition with my sales rep. One of them is coming back home with me.

I've been hearing good things about the Line6 Helix, but I have no direct experience with it - although a couple tone chasing guitarists I know have been using them and leaving their tube amps home, FWIW...

 

[seamonkey]

This is what I'm struggling with now. The Kemper is the same cost as the Fender SB 300. The Kemper may, and I say may, give me every amp I want to try/use right in my own home. BUT, is it good enough to fool me enough to skip the tube head.
I'll be testing this out at Sweetwaters Gearfest in a few months. I've already planned the audition with my sales rep. One of them is coming back home with me.

It does depend on the "profile" captured.
A lot people dismiss modeling when it doesn't sound like "their amp"
The original amps never did on the music shop floor. You'd try out several of the same amps and pick one.
Internet buying now, and it's most people seem to have forgot that there are variances in tube amps.

The good news on Kemper is that there are many many profiles of the same named amp, but from different physical amps. If you don't like the Baseman profile, try another. The room from which the profile was captured, as well as the cabinet and mic it was captured with matter. Sometimes you want to play an amp with worn out tubes - grab a profile from one. Guitar players are always smiling when they get brand new tubes. Grab a profile from new tubes in an amp. Some people like ripple inter-modulation distortion, hum, crackle, ....

There are some good competitors to the Kemper now. Some modelers can capture changes in the time domain - such as phasing, doppler effects and other subtle artifacts. Kemper should come out with a model with just a few knobs, and the rest available from a tablet for when you want to capture or tweak a profile. They should put it in a case that looks like a bass head. Just looks alone could make it more user friendly.

It's a brand new world, and sound and tone captured and archived to 100%!
Available to any who to try it.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It does depend on the "profile" captured.
A lot people dismiss modeling when it doesn't sound like "their amp"
The original amps never did on the music shop floor. You'd try out several of the same amps and pick one.
Internet buying now, and it's most people seem to have forgot that there are variances in tube amps.

The good news on Kemper is that there are many many profiles of the same named amp, but from different physical amps. If you don't like the Baseman profile, try another. The room from which the profile was captured, as well as the cabinet and mic it was captured with matter. Sometimes you want to play an amp with worn out tubes - grab a profile from one. Guitar players are always smiling when they get brand new tubes. Grab a profile from new tubes in an amp. Some people like ripple inter-modulation distortion, hum, crackle, ....

There are some good competitors to the Kemper now. Some modelers can capture changes in the time domain - such as phasing, doppler effects and other subtle artifacts. Kemper should come out with a model with just a few knobs, and the rest available from a tablet for when you want to capture or tweak a profile. They should put it in a case that looks like a bass head. Just looks alone could make it more user friendly.

It's a brand new world, and sound and tone captured and archived to 100%!
Available to any who to try it.

Doppler effects? So you can now capture the effect of having s wireless system and running around the stage from your own sofa? That's excellent!

 

[Deak]

It does depend on the "profile" captured.
A lot people dismiss modeling when it doesn't sound like "their amp"
The original amps never did on the music shop floor. You'd try out several of the same amps and pick one.
Internet buying now, and it's most people seem to have forgot that there are variances in tube amps.

The good news on Kemper is that there are many many profiles of the same named amp, but from different physical amps. If you don't like the Baseman profile, try another. The room from which the profile was captured, as well as the cabinet and mic it was captured with matter. Sometimes you want to play an amp with worn out tubes - grab a profile from one. Guitar players are always smiling when they get brand new tubes. Grab a profile from new tubes in an amp. Some people like ripple inter-modulation distortion, hum, crackle, ....

There are some good competitors to the Kemper now. Some modelers can capture changes in the time domain - such as phasing, doppler effects and other subtle artifacts. Kemper should come out with a model with just a few knobs, and the rest available from a tablet for when you want to capture or tweak a profile. They should put it in a case that looks like a bass head. Just looks alone could make it more user friendly.

It's a brand new world, and sound and tone captured and archived to 100%!
Available to any who to try it.

Thanks @seamonkey. I'm beginning to see more and more of what you have so thoroughly explained in a lot of the threads on sites regarding the Kemper. Especially that there are several profilers that have naturally risen to the top offering excellent profiles produced under very close control production wise. Thanks for the input about all of the variables I can peruse. If you have any links, I would be appreciative.

This is probably a done deal.

Edit for spelling

 

[ThisBass]

I think they are. I really do. It's been discussed to death on here before in the context of class D vs everything else and the discussion always ends with people saying its not the class of the amp, but the designer's choices. Having said that, are modern designs trending "harsher"?

I feel like the emphasis on warm, round sounding tones has taken a backseat to clarity? I quite playing for a long time and when I started again, I noticed this immediately.

Way back in the time around the late 70's I can remember about "modern" guitar amps which sounded extremely harsh.
A couple of "modern" bass amplifiers also answered with a "harsh" sound when driven too hard.
Same issue was for cabinetry cause lots of manufacturers began to design very crispy sounding cabs for bass guitar application at around early 80's.

A "warm" sound had been kinda lack of sound theese (vintage) days.

Over time nearly everything does chance, like fashion does chance over time.
Even our memories do change over time, just to glorify the good old days.

 

[JimmyM]

Way back in the time around the late 70's I can remember about "modern" guitar amps which sounded extremely harsh.
A couple of "modern" bass amplifiers also answered with a "harsh" sound when driven too hard.
Same issue was for cabinetry cause lots of manufacturers began to design very crispy sounding cabs for bass guitar application at around early 80's.

A "warm" sound had been kinda lack of sound theese (vintage) days.

Over time nearly everything does chance, like fashion does chance over time.
Even our memories do change over time, just to glorify the good old days.

My memories of the good old days reflect the quality of video reproduction in the time frame they happened.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Vintage amps that are up to spec sound the same today as they did back in the day.

The same recording equipment is available. Most studios do not used tape, pretty much all of them favor digital workstations. Restored vintage consoles are very much in demand. Modern recording consoles are very good, both sonically and in terms of workflow. Vintage mics are in demand. Modern mics and outboard gear is built to match or exceed the performance of the vintage ones.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Vintage amps that are up to spec sound the same today as they did back in the day.

The same recording equipment is available. Most studios do not used tape, pretty much all of them favor digital workstations. Restored vintage consoles are very much in demand. Modern recording consoles are very good, both sonically and in terms of workflow. Vintage mics are in demand. Modern mics and outboard gear is built to match or exceed the performance of the vintage ones.

Is the use if vintage gear due to particular characteristics of the gear, a perception that it has a better or more authentic sound, or nostalgia?

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Thanks @seamonkey. I'm beginning to see more and more of what you have so thoroughly explained in a lot of the threads on sites regarding the Kemper. Especially that there are several profilers that have naturally risen to the top offering excellent profiles produced under very close control production wise. Thanks for the input about all of the variables I can peruse. If you have any links, I would be appreciative.

This is probably a done deal.

Edit for spelling

When the price of profilers hits around £500, I might be tempted.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Is the use if vintage gear due to particular characteristics of the gear, a perception that it has a better or more authentic sound, or nostalgia?

I wouldn’t use anything vintage that didn’t sound fantastic. The tube amps that I use are all very special in terms of how they sound and perform. They are all restored and up to or beyond spec.

Take my ‘63 B-15 for example, it has no hum or hiss which is great for recording. It is the quietest musical instrument tube amp that I’ve ever heard, But the tone is like no other amp in term of richness. The first time I played through it, I just about wet myself.

I should add that a vintage amp can require a lot of work to bring up to spec and make reliable. Even doing all the work yourself, costs quickly mount. Some vintage amps come well maintained and that’s always a big plus. But no question, financially, most people are better off with a new amp that comes with a warranty.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I think they are. I really do. It's been discussed to death on here before in the context of class D vs everything else and the discussion always ends with people saying its not the class of the amp, but the designer's choices. Having said that, are modern designs trending "harsher"?

I feel like the emphasis on warm, round sounding tones has taken a backseat to clarity? I quite playing for a long time and when I started again, I noticed this immediately.

Keep in mind, I’m probably playing through 20 year old technology and for that, the answer is no. I have played some class D amps however, and while I’m not overly impressed with what I can get out of them musically speaking, harsh is not a word I’d use to use to describe them. I would suggest that the problem more than likely be either the cab, or EQ which is causing the harshness you’re hearing, not the amp.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

The di/headphone of my mesa is great. Through every can I've try it through it is sterile, dry and seemliy uber hot above 1k. I end up running the treble at 9:00 cut hi miss and the. Tweeter almost all the way off.

Off the top of my head, I think your issue is more of a what is your output reference, speaker, headphones, ear buds, computer, IPhone?

I don’t have much experience with your amp, but I do have some significant experience with headphones and earbuds. If you are using IEMs, it is imparitive to get a good seal in the ear canal with great sound isolation (not to be confused with sound cancellation) to get a vibrant warm bass sound. A set of Shure 110 SEs and properly fitted buds might do the trick without killing your budget. No, it’s not going to sound like a wall of SVTs, but that should take care of your Uber treble issue. To date, I’ve not found a set of “cans” that will give you enough isolation without breaking the bank, not to mention messing up my comb over......

 

[megatapper]

My back aches just thinking about it.

Yeah I know right? I just moved my Eden 4x10 cab and amp to my church today to play Easter service. That was murder. But boy did it sound good.

 

[pigpen1]

Off the top of my head, I think your issue is more of a what is your output reference, speaker, headphones, ear buds, computer, IPhone?

I don’t have much experience with your amp, but I do have some significant experience with headphones and earbuds. If you are using IEMs, it is imparitive to get a good seal in the ear canal with great sound isolation (not to be confused with sound cancellation) to get a vibrant warm bass sound. A set of Shure 110 SEs and properly fitted buds might do the trick without killing your budget. No, it’s not going to sound like a wall of SVTs, but that should take care of your Uber treble issue. To date, I’ve not found a set of “cans” that will give you enough isolation without breaking the bank, not to mention messing up my comb over......

Using Senhiesser headphones. they are a pretty decent set, although I don't remember exact model. I use them at FOH when I mix too because they don't have that uber-colored sound a lot of comsumer headphones do, and seal reasonably well. This sounds great. end of the day my cab is too high-mid focus, but I can eq around it. I'll probably upgrade cabs in the future.

 

[megatapper]

Using Senhiesser headphones. they are a pretty decent set, although I don't remember exact model. I use them at FOH when I mix too because they don't have that uber-colored sound a lot of comsumer headphones do, and seal reasonably well. This sounds great. end of the day my cab is too high-mid focus, but I can eq around it. I'll probably upgrade cabs in the future.

I'm definitely a fan of the 15" speaker