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Are the big amps history?

The Pros might well use the big guys because they are provided as backline.

I'd say that should read "The big guys are provided as backline because the Pros use them".
As Jimmy mentioned, bigger is better for bass, backline rental providers stock what band riders call for, and what you find on big league band contract riders is specification for "300 watt tube bass amp system, Ampeg SVT or equivalent", not "Class D Micro Amp with Neo loaded cabinet".

Yes big tube rigs are expensive, and a major PITA to schlep around, impractical and out of budget for the average amateur player. That said, almost always when $ and logistics isn't a factor, pro's who can play anything they want go with the big tube guns.

Unless of course they also have a lucrative endorsement deal from a manufacturer that requires them to have "Brand X" visible on stage... :rolleyes:
 
I love the feel and sound and attitude of a decent size rig on a big stage. I don't have to worry about who the sound man is and if he even understands what the band is going for. There are more bad sound men who seem to be leftovers from the Disco era than I knew existed.
Got my morning started with a chuckle.

Disco sound men. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Feel, sound and attitude of your rig is all part of your play attitude. The visual for me is a great jumpstart at a venue. From that point it's all on the group. The group rocks on or I put my beer down and walk out.
 
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I'll sum it up like this:

The older I get - the more I appreciate the back saving, easy load-in, cheap watts that are available today. I can remember the days of playing in the city and having to unload 4x10's, racked gear, etc. Throw the hazards on, hope your car doesn't get hit, and move a ton as quick as you can.....the benefit of youth. If I didn't have the upright to move, I could probably make one trip from the car.

Having said that though, I still don't think the tiny, efficient cabs and heads produce the thunder on stage that my old rigs did. Maybe it's all nostalgia, but there's just something about rattling your backside with a 4x10 keeping up with two guitars and drums. I can't imagine my micro heads and tiny cabs touching that!
 
And I've seen guys with all sorts of fancy gear and pedals who flat out wail and sound awesome, and I've seen guys with a beat up bass and simple combo amp that sound like crap. The musician makes the gear, true enough, and that's why your comparison is a false one.

Yes.

Here's the deal...bigger is better for bass...always. Notice I didn't say "sometimes"...I said "always." It is physics.

Only partially true. Once you've got enough rig to cover the gig *with the volume and tone you want*, going bigger is usually worse.

Even though it's not the biggest rig, an SVT + 810 still sounds—and feels—pretty good, and multiple SVT/810s aren't always better than one. And there are a lot of gigs for which going smaller than an SVT/810 for the stage rig is a better fit—tonally, aesthetically, and/or practically.
 
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Once again, this had devolved into a binary "us vs. them" kind of thing when it need not be.

1) Use what you like.

2) @jkalads please link us to the Craigslist ads where tube amps are sitting and reducing in price. That has not happened in my area.

3) I found a great middle ground. Mesa Walkabout Scout 15" stack or the same head on an Epifani 4-10. Lighter and smaller than an SVT and a fridge and larger and heavier than a micro head and 2-10. Somewhere in between on tone as well.

4) It's an individual thing. @JimmyM has played a gig every twenty minutes for decades. If he feels and plays better with an SVT and fridge behind him who am I to argue with success? Many here are in love with the Mesa micro heads and their corresponding small cabs. Who am I to argue with that? We need to avoid the word "better" when used in conjunction with a wide brush. Better for me will be different from better for you. Neither is universally better.
 
I drag an SVT and 810 to every little bar gig we ever play. It has sounded better than every other rig I have heard by any other band. It has a volume knob and I don't crank it to 11 but I'm always heard and felt. More power to the guys who love light weight stuff, keeps the big stuff cheap for me.

My SVT sat in CL for months and dropped to 600 before I got it. My V4B took several months to sell and I had to drop the price on it as well. More and more people enjoy the easier load in. I also drive a hatchback focus when I lay the seats down I can fit everything including a keyboard in the back of the car.
 
I love a big rig. But I'm 41 now, play a few gigs a week, and have several kids and a full time job. The times I have had backline, they have been big and heavy. But when I need to get home from work, make and serve dinner, change, drive, unload, park, setup and be ready to play, my 4 pound 900 watt class D head with my 30 pound 112 speaker (that rig has NEVER "not been enough") is all I have time, space, and energy for. I haven't "missed" the big iron at all.
 
Back in the late 70s- early 80s I used a Sunn Model T and Sunn 2/15 cab.
It was refrigerator big and sounded decent and loud. Kept me up with Marshall stacks.
I wished it had been an SVT.
Years later in the early 2000's I used a small Ampeg combo and the guitarist a Line6 Pod right into the PA.
No amp.
At the end of the decade a Ashdown Mag 300 and 4/10 cab.
A few years ago a Ashdown EVO 500 and 2 4/10 cabs.
Back to refrigerator big.
Great for gigs and in my living room next to a 1971 Orange ORS 100 half stack.
I recently found that I needed a smaller bass combo that I could grab on the fly and load without help.
I got a Ampeg PF800 Portaflex with a PF 210HE cab.
It sounds good.
I still wish I had an SVT or Marshall Major stack....Just to have..It would most likely be sitting in my living room.
The Ashdown can do the bigger gigs and I could probably get assistance to move it,but as a recovered cardiac patient, I am not going to do all that myself.
I can manage the Portaflex.
But depending on the job, you use the right tools.
 
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I am not talking about Mp3's here.

My sound interface is capable of recording in 24 Bit 128 Khz sample rate, in that aspect and taking into account how old CD technology is by now, I would call CD quality inferior.

Technology based on digital systems do not age well.

Professional studio recording standard is 24 Bit 96 Khz, not speaking of that most customers chose to just buy the Mp3 version anyway, or that maybe even the original masters are not being made available in higher quality than what a CD is capable of reproducing, unless it come out on on vinyl, or is available on that media in a true analog version where there have been no digital downgrading of the source involved.

With good equipment to reproduce audio the difference between CD quality and 24 Bit 96 Khz quality will be almost as apparent as the difference between 128 Kb/s Mp3 quality and 16 Bit 44,1 Khz Cd quality.

So yes CD quality is very much inferior to today's digital standards, and digital technology will always have inherent limitations making it inferior to analog systems of similar quality in the aspect of reproducing information that is true and accurate to the source.

Analog technology by definition reproduce all the information and subtleties of the original source, in theory at least a 1:1 relationship, only limited by quality of the hardware, digital technology on the other hand will always be an approximation or emulation basically made up of 0's and 1's.

Digital equipment will in other words always be limited by how fast it can pick up and process the information coming form the source, cause in a digital system information will with 100% certainty be left out, maybe not on a level that humans consciously are able to perceive if we are talking recent digital standards, but non the less it will miss a lot of information.

That can be useful in some situations, sometimes you would want a system to not to pick up what would be cocidered irrelevant information in the context.

In the very nature of how digital systems work always having to shut on and off, basically everything a digital system reproduce will be split up in small chunks of information, hence why we call it resolution, with analog technology the flow of information is unbroken and you will have all of it, again theoretically, which means the resolution will basically be infinite.

Pictures are a nice and easy way to understand this:

Digital pictures will have a limit of how much you can zoom in depending on how many squares the given digital system is capable of reducing the source to.

Analog pictures will only be limited by the quality of the lens used to capture the light that makes up the picture.

At this point it is still not possible to make a digital camera that is capable of splitting the information it receives up in so small parts that it is more sufficient at reproducing a accurate image then the most clear and powerful lens we can make are at picking up light.

Digital systems no doubt are much cheaper, flexible and predictable though.

And to have a system that can reuse information and easily can be programmed to handle almost whatever kind of information in whatever way you may wish just by lining up the right sequence of something and nothing while not easily being disturbed by irrelevant information, instead of having to physically create systems made from scratch each time it has to take new assignment or task, is no doubt very practical, but it doesn't make it better in every aspect, far from.

Analog is still better at being true to the source material, even if that means picking up irrelevant information in the context such as "noise" from the system it self.

Maybe a bit like the difference between playing with Lego and clay.

Both have their obvious strength and weaknesses, but one thing is for sure if you put clay into a mold you will get something that looks like what formed the mold almost exactly, if using Lego blocks, well not that much.

:rollno:

A mountain of misinformation/misunderstanding ^^^^^.

I don't have the time or desire this morning to correct everything wrong with this post.

So you prefer analog. Use it. But don't pass this information along as truth. Pretty pleeeeaasee :thumbsup:
 
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digital technology on the other hand will always be an approximation or emulation basically made up of 0's and 1's

Let me guess: you have no background in electrical engineering :cool:

If the science behind the conversion between the digital and analog domains was unsound, a lot of everyday devices starting with your phone and flat panel TV would not even work. There is no lost information with the sampling bandwidth.

What does this have to do with SVT stacks? :woot:
 
Sure, big amps have their place. I prefer to my SVT rigs in my home and in my studio. I like to practice with them because they sound and record great.

I can see the appeal of light weight gear for small gig's, especially if you have to load/unload on your own.

However, for big gigs with a larger crowd I will hump my SVT with two 410's and my 12lb. passive mahogany jazz bass. It just sounds awesome.
 
:rollno:

A mountain of misinformation ^^^^^.

I don't have the time or desire this morning to correct everything wrong with this post.

So you prefer analog. Use it. But don't pass this information along as truth. Pretty pleeeeaasee :thumbsup:

I would like to know how it work then.

But I guess I can't force you to explain it to me.

Anyway I didn't say I prefer analog anywhere, other than in the context of pictures and sound processing, at least considering how digitally founded systems process information currently.

And I did say there are advantages and disadvantages connected to both analog and digitally based systems.

For example an all analog system would make it both extremely time consuming and expensive if not straight out impossible to do what I have been doing just now writing this message for everyone in the world to see it.

Let me guess: you have no background in electrical engineering :cool:

If the science behind the conversion between the digital and analog domains was unsound, a lot of everyday devices starting with your phone and flat panel TV would not even work. There is no lost information with the sampling bandwidth.

What does this have to do with SVT stacks? :woot:

There is no loss in the sense that what you send, the series of 0's and 1's you simplified the source information to, are still there when it reach the receiving side, but you are at least equally misinformed if you think that the conversion from the source signal, say the persons you see speaking in a news program, is perfect.

If that were true you would basically be in the same room with them, and even then there would be information lost as the "bandwidth" of your own consciousness and senses are limited as well.

If what you were saying was true, there would be no reason for improving digital technology as it would already have been possible for every single digital device to be capable of processing on a level that would include every single sub particle in the entire multiverse.

And it has very little with an SVT stack admittedly, this discussion derived from someone mentioning digitally processed music as an example.
 
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Pictures are a nice and easy way to understand this:

Digital pictures will have a limit of how much you can zoom in depending on how many squares the given digital system is capable of reducing the source to.

Analog pictures will only be limited by the quality of the lens used to capture the light that makes up the picture.

At this point it is still not possible to make a digital camera that is capable of splitting the information it receives up in so small parts that it is more sufficient at reproducing a accurate image then the most clear and powerful lens we can make are at picking up light.

Poor analogy. Anyone who has worked in a darkroom knows this isn't true. Silver grains and all.
 
You guys are worried about weight... And I am over here just laughing.

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