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Are the big amps history?

#441
Haroldo said:
The price back in the day was frightening.
View attachment 1174886

View attachment 1174887
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I gigged a Kustom 3-15 rig back in the 70's. White sparkle Naugahyde. I don't remember the used price being all that bad. One night I got the bright idea to carry it down a narrow set of stairs backwards while wearing platform shoes. Damn near killed myself. I did stop being brutalized when I got to the bottom of said stairs.

Other than getting rid of the shoes I clearly didn't learn a damn thing. My next rig after I got out of the USAF was a pair of JBL 4530 scoop cabs, two custom small 212 cabs and two horn arrays. I ran a then new Carver PM 1.5 and Crown an Ashley preamp and 3 way crossover. That's right, I put together a triamp PA system for electric bass... because I was young, single, making good IT money and had a free customized (velour interior, captains chairs, fold-down big bed) Ford company van. On paper it killed... and I never had a gig on paper. Lesson learned.

The last "big" piece was an Aguilar DB750. My Yamaha PB-1/Crown XLS1500 easily hung with it for fingerstyle and killed it for slap. And my Amplified Music Products BH-420 easily hung with that. Then I switched to class D amps. So I'm not dismissing any gear out of hand, I've given most of stuff out here a shot, I'm always open to something that pushes even more of my buttons. If I heard better I'd use it.

Makes me appreciate my rig all the more. I've been there, done that and damn near died for it. My rig sounds better than anything I used back then to me and apparently the people I play with.
;)
 
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#444
B-line said:
Hmmmm-
I think one reasonable conclusion here, based on the last several pics-
Is that Big Amps are NOT History...

There is just no vehicle big enough to haul them away!!!:roflmao:
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Oh, SO not true - my C1500 Silverado begs to differ, lol... Back when I gigged the mighty PH810, I would sometimes use my GF's little KIA Soul - with the back seat down, it would hold the PH810, 4U SKB rack case, 3 basses in hardshells, cooler, fan, and travel bag - and still have the passenger seat empty
 
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#448
mesaplayer83 said:
Oh, SO not true - my C1500 Silverado begs to differ, lol... Back when I gigged the mighty PH810, I would sometimes use my GF's little KIA Soul - with the back seat down, it would hold the PH810, 4U SKB rack case, 3 basses in hardshells, cooler, fan, and travel bag - and still have the passenger seat empty
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Here in the broiling Mojave Desert, I see a whole lotta GIANT trucks, pulling boats and such, so certainly I know it CAN be done.

Some time back I worked on a 3+ month tour through 14 states, and for a large portion, we were provided this:

Sprinter-LTO.jpg


type of "Sprinter" converted Mercedes Van to cart us and our equipment around to venues. Let me tell you it was NICE!
The rear section held our personal musical gear, (many of the gigs had back line provided, but we carried our own rigs inc. P.A. as well). There was a small kitchen area, nice lavatory, and best of all A/C that worked like a dream!

Small ensemble, (3) piece and (2) Roadies/Drivers. Might even be able to fit your Silverado in there too!:roflmao:

What prompted my comment was that pic of the Fender 400 PS and its cabinets. Holy schmoke that is a throwback in time & design, as are the Kustoms, big Marshalls and such.

'Scuse me, I've got to take this call::laugh:

download (1).jpg
 
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#450
B-line said:
Here in the broiling Mojave Desert, I see a whole lotta GIANT trucks, pulling boats and such, so certainly I know it CAN be done.

Some time back I worked on a 3+ month tour through 14 states, and for a large portion, we were provided this:

View attachment 1175101

type of "Sprinter" converted Mercedes Van to cart us and our equipment around to venues. Let me tell you it was NICE!
The rear section held our personal musical gear, (many of the gigs had back line provided, but we carried our own rigs inc. P.A. as well). There was a small kitchen area, nice lavatory, and best of all A/C that worked like a dream!

Small ensemble, (3) piece and (2) Roadies/Drivers. Might even be able to fit your Silverado in there too!:roflmao:

What prompted my comment was that pic of the Fender 400 PS and its cabinets. Holy schmoke that is a throwback in time & design, as are the Kustoms, big Marshalls and such.

'Scuse me, I've got to take this call::laugh:

View attachment 1175103
Click to expand...

I could put two of my cars IN that vehicle... along with my rig.
:D

I'll call you right back...

Bag phone.jpg
 
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#452
Bflat said:
here is my SVT Slayer fender 400ps and 3 original cabsView attachment 1175039
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OMG!!!! I remember in Juneau when that amp came out-- Juneau is the capital of Alaska and at the time I hung around some rich kids whose parents were in government. One of the kids got one of these and actually used it for the gigs. I remember he had two bottoms, and they hauled his rig in the back of an old truck and three guys used to unload it. But MAN when he cranked that thing up, it was a BEAST MONSTER! I wish I had the chance to own one when I was touring-- then again hauling it out at 2:30am after a Saturday gig--- nahhhh, don't think so..... But still what an amp!

EDIT: I remember the kid had a folding stand with wheels for the head. It was unbelievable when pumping out that bottom end.
 
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#455
Brad Johnson said:
I love it when people make that leap. Do you think that your understanding of physics defines physics?
:D

Do you think that new or different approaches must defy physics?
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Obviously they can't :D

I don't. So explain why TWO of my cabinets MUST work BETTER together than ONE? Because that is what you're saying. I want to know which rules of physics I'm defying?

This is approaching a recent conversation I had here where a guy told me I wasn't disagreeing with him, I was disagreeing with physics. It was a stunningly ignorant conversation. I don't expect that this time.
:)
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I am very bad at explaining it (tried to find Bill FM's explanation unsuccessfully), but when you double up on small cabs, you get a coupling effect that results in a nice mild boost in the low end, plus you're not having to work the speakers as hard to achieve the same amount of air movement.
 
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#456
JimmyM said:
Obviously they can't :D
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I know all too well.


I am very bad at explaining it (tried to find Bill FM's explanation unsuccessfully), but when you double up on small cabs, you get a coupling effect that results in a nice mild boost in the low end, plus you're not having to work the speakers as hard to achieve the same amount of air movement.
Click to expand...

Trying to apply a basic tenet like that to all cabinets is problematic.

Dealing with a typical cabinet, I agree. I'm not using a typical cabinet, I'm using one designed to work better alone. It doesn't have a typical layout nor is its dispersion pattern typical. So it doesn't behave as a typical cabinet does. Which is one reason why I prefer it over bigger cabs that so far can't surpass what I'm after.

I know all too well that some consider this heresy ;). But we don't all have the same requirements so the idea of a blanket "better" is kind of weird. Think about it. And until you try everything available, determining what is better between a known and one who's performance is based on an educated guess...

nope.

And everything my cab does is based on physics. It has to be.
:D
 
#457
Chef said:
I didn't read all 424 preceding posts.
But; I'm 56 now, and I surely miss nothing at all about hauling around a 95lb head and two 120lb speaker cabs when I can carry a 4lb head and one 55lb cab.
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... and I don't miss hauling around 4 tons of PA either ;)
 
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#458
Brad Johnson said:
I know all too well.




Trying to apply a basic tenet like that to all cabinets is problematic.

Dealing with a typical cabinet, I agree. I'm not using a typical cabinet, I'm using one designed to work better alone. It doesn't have a typical layout nor is its dispersion pattern typical. So it doesn't behave as a typical cabinet does. Which is one reason why I prefer it over bigger cabs that so far can't surpass what I'm after.

I know all too well that some consider this heresy ;). But we don't all have the same requirements so the idea of a blanket "better" is kind of weird. Think about it. And until you try everything available, determining what is better between a known and one who's performance is based on an educated guess...

nope.

And everything my cab does is based on physics. It has to be.
:D
Click to expand...
OK. Send me a couple and I'll let you know what I think :D
 
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#459
aborgman said:
I thought two sounded better...

Then I tried with just one, but put it on an amp stand so it was firing at my head just like the second cab in the stack was... and then I adjusted the volume using an actual SPL meter (to do away with the 3dB you gain from speaker coupling... study upon study shows that humans will say the exact same sound, just louder, sounds better) - and it sounded the same to me.

...but, it may have just been my mind (just as you thinking it sounds better with double cabinets) - because with any sighted, non-blind trial - we're all subject to unconscious bias.
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I'm surprised it didn't sound at least a little different because of the nature of mutual coupling. Even at the same SPL two cabinets closely placed would have more low end than one. Coupling only occurs effectively below the frequency with wavelength twice the distance between the centres of the drivers so it skews the frequency response of the system. This can be mitigated with advanced multidriver designs with appropriate crossover points (see every line array box) but the vast majority of bass guitar cabinets aren't designed that way. In a typical 112/tweeter cabinet (or 410 and tweeter, etc.) the woofers are crossed over to the HF element well above the point where a pair of them would couple and the HF elements are way too far apart to couple (for reference, even at absolute minimum separation of 12" mutual coupling only works up to about 600Hz with 12" drivers).

Brad Johnson said:
It does not sound better. And I know that because I actually tried it a few times... I'm not afraid to experiment, it's how I test potentials. One cab sounded much better, was more focused AND as mentioned was capable of way more than I needed.

Sorry. While this is often true with conventional cabs, that ain't what I'm using. Not even close.
;)
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But I bet it sounds different with two. Whether that's "better" or not is of course, quite subjective. My perception of things in general is that a single cabinet would tend to be more focused than a pair because of the mechanism I described above.

At the end of the day if you're happy with the sound you get from a lightweight rig that's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. I love my little rig for most gigs. It does pretty much exactly what I want for corporate stuff with my cover band (70s and 80s pop mostly). However, for my balls out rock and roll band, it doesn't cut it both in overall SPL and in the tone I'm looking for there. In that situation my SVT/NV610 rules and I haven't come across anything else that does that thing the way that rig does. Yet, anyway. And even if I did, I don't think I'll be parting with a mint condition mid-70s SVT anyway, even though it is a bit of an anachronism. :D
 
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#460
Mark Reccord said:
I'm surprised it didn't sound at least a little different because of the nature of mutual coupling. Even at the same SPL two cabinets closely placed would have more low end than one. Coupling only occurs effectively below the frequency with wavelength twice the distance between the centres of the drivers so it skews the frequency response of the system. This can be mitigated with advanced multidriver designs with appropriate crossover points (see every line array box) but the vast majority of bass guitar cabinets aren't designed that way. In a typical 112/tweeter cabinet (or 410 and tweeter, etc.) the woofers are crossed over to the HF element well above the point where a pair of them would couple and the HF elements are way too far apart to couple (for reference, even at absolute minimum separation of 12" mutual coupling only works up to about 600Hz with 12" drivers).
Click to expand...

I play a multidriver cab with appropriate crossover - a fEarful 15/6. Stacked with the top cabinet inverted you have about 8" separation between the 6" drivers, and they are only covering above 500Hz. So there is generally not a lot of 1/4 wavelength coupling at all with the mid driver.

It's highpassed by the amp at 55Hz - so the subs are only covering ~55-500Hz, and the center-center separation is about 5'... so there is almost no coupling of the woofers either.
 

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