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Are Theory-Nazis anti-fun?
- Thread starter brewer9
- Start date
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,402
- 9,834
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Originally posted by john turner
zzz...
wah? huh? who?
you snob!
(thanks man, i'm blushin')
don't let it go to your head
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
what the f#$k is a theory nazi anyway? i mean, i like to know about what i am doing, musically, which i would hope is understandable considering the amount of time and money i spend on it.
being a creative, original musician and being ignorant of the "rules of music" is like trying to be an author and being ignorant of grammatical rules and spelling.
it's not impossible to be a good creative musician and still be ignorant of the "why's" of music, but it certainly makes it more difficult. furthermore, if you take the same creative individual and educate them, their creativity doesn't "disappear" or get killed, it finds better, more eloquent ways of expression.
don't forget that learning theory isn't going to make an uncreative person more creative, too. there are many jazz players that i think fall into this category - technical excellence without the real spark of creative playing. this is not limited to jazz, though, i've heard many ignorant "Rock" guys who were equally unmusical and uncreative, they just went about their uncreativity couched in the "rock and roll" ignorance that seems to be a badge among many musicians.
lastly, "yes all sounds the same"?!? what have you listened to? compare machine messiah to we have heaven to gates of delirium to leave it to time and a word to awaken. god, hardly even sounds like the same band.
being a creative, original musician and being ignorant of the "rules of music" is like trying to be an author and being ignorant of grammatical rules and spelling.
it's not impossible to be a good creative musician and still be ignorant of the "why's" of music, but it certainly makes it more difficult. furthermore, if you take the same creative individual and educate them, their creativity doesn't "disappear" or get killed, it finds better, more eloquent ways of expression.
don't forget that learning theory isn't going to make an uncreative person more creative, too. there are many jazz players that i think fall into this category - technical excellence without the real spark of creative playing. this is not limited to jazz, though, i've heard many ignorant "Rock" guys who were equally unmusical and uncreative, they just went about their uncreativity couched in the "rock and roll" ignorance that seems to be a badge among many musicians.
lastly, "yes all sounds the same"?!? what have you listened to? compare machine messiah to we have heaven to gates of delirium to leave it to time and a word to awaken. god, hardly even sounds like the same band.
It almost seems to me that a society of "I want it now" and "I sure don't want to have to work for it" perpetuates the myth that totally abandoning any structure, rules, or even wisdom of those who came before, marks heroism, independent thought, and greatness. Pop culture seems to certainly promote the idea that you are a phenom if "things come naturally to you." The myth of overnight successes just perpetuates this. Those actors "discovered overnight" were not really discovered overnight, they've been working in community theater while waiting tables for years. Those bands that came from nowhere have actually been practicing in their own garage and touring in a '78 VW bus for 10 years. Greatness, or even "goodness," does not just occur, it is worked for. That work for music includes understanding music. Understanding music is largely theory. Ah hell, I'm babbling.
My point is that society almost seems to tell us that going against the grain and order is always the best thing. To the point to where it's taken to the extreme and applied to everything. Following the info brought down by others, like say...music theory, is for squares. I will acknowledge there is a difference between people who studying theory and theory nazis. Nazi may not be the best term. Wouldn't that mean that they are catergorically against anything else, and persecute those that are different.
Blah blah blah.
My point is that society almost seems to tell us that going against the grain and order is always the best thing. To the point to where it's taken to the extreme and applied to everything. Following the info brought down by others, like say...music theory, is for squares. I will acknowledge there is a difference between people who studying theory and theory nazis. Nazi may not be the best term. Wouldn't that mean that they are catergorically against anything else, and persecute those that are different.
Blah blah blah.
I think it's mostly down to complacency. I've been playing bass four years and I only know, major and minor scales, pentatonic major and minor scales and thats it, very litttle theory indeed. But because I have managed to build and create bass lines that please me using this rather limited knowledge I see that I've learned all I need to learn.
I am aware that this is the wrong attitude but I'm just pointing out that, from my own experience, this is the reason why so many people find themselves stuck in a rut.
The satisfaction and subsequent complacency that develops as a result of applying the little knowledge I do know, coupled with the effort required to learn more results in this situation. I think this is what happens to a lot of musicians, as ed was saying.
I am aware that this is the wrong attitude but I'm just pointing out that, from my own experience, this is the reason why so many people find themselves stuck in a rut.
The satisfaction and subsequent complacency that develops as a result of applying the little knowledge I do know, coupled with the effort required to learn more results in this situation. I think this is what happens to a lot of musicians, as ed was saying.
HEAD DISMAY makes a good point, if your satisfied, have a great time, if not, study and keep working towards opening doors. I know if I were to go and try to play with folks who had years of study and experience on me that it would not be fun, it would, in fact, suck very much. The best thing I could do then would be to shut up and listen. That is why I study, I want to be able to do what they do.
I recently learned major and minor scales. And I find it a lot easier to come up with guitar chord progressions and basslines. I could come up with a guitar part, but couldnt effectively write a bass line because I didnt know scales. I find it a lot easier and more fun now. Not so much of a headache.
I use theory. I dont play jazz, but punk and ska. I can attempt to play blues, metal, funk, etc. I play punk and ska because I like them. They sound good to me. Thats also why I write my music the way I do- because it sounds good to me.
I use theory. I dont play jazz, but punk and ska. I can attempt to play blues, metal, funk, etc. I play punk and ska because I like them. They sound good to me. Thats also why I write my music the way I do- because it sounds good to me.
It's Alive. It's alivvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvve!
Just when I thought this thread was dead you drag me back in. AHHHHHHHHHH.
Just when I thought this thread was dead you drag me back in. AHHHHHHHHHH.
Vee haff VAYYYS off makink you play TOO FIFE ONCE......Ya, und ifff yoo try to resissst, yoo VILL BE TERMINATTEDD!!
can't we all just get along. I have a dream that one day jazz snobs and rock morons will one daybe able to hold hand a walk up the street to the promise without thinking of eachother as different styles, but instead just thinking of themselves as musicians, nay as bass players!
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
Just got back from playing a "Rock Moron" BG gig, and now I'm working on holding my own hand, walking to the promise, and thinking of myself not only as a musician, but as bassplayers.
It's tougher than it sounds: ever try to walk while holding your own hand? It makes you look like a little kid who just caught some great bug that he's saving for when he gets home...
I always walk holding my own hand, just like you do.
I have always loved music, Period.
I love all types equal, when asked what type of music do you truly not enjoy I always answered Opera. Today I found out that Opera is pretty cool. Yesterday I found out that I do not like that Barbershop Quartet stuff. I saw some black guys doing it once in a Frank Zappa video and was blown away. But today I heard these white as a cracker guys doing this song called "My Incredible Penis" and thought "Wow, not only is this not funny, but musically it is quite bad sounding"
