Anyone who spells "fantasies" as "fantasy's", if indeed they did, has zero credibility in my book.
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are we being ripped off by expensive manufactured basses?
- Thread starter zazin
- Start date
Foderas sound different from instrument to instrument - part of being a custom. They also are brutally honest instruments. Sloppy technique is highlighted and you get out what you put in.
Not ideal for everyone - no best solution.
Not ideal for everyone - no best solution.
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I personally don't see Fender to be substandard to any boutiques. Better finish, electronics and hardware (debateable) aside, Fenders are quality basses and the market leader by a substantial margin for a reason. They sound great.
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Hi Steve
Certainly didn't mean to imply there are deep dark secrets at all - I was unable to uncover any bass building videos from the searches I did - and figured many of them did not go to the trouble of making any videos. Would love if you would point me to any bass building videos (other than Rickenbacker) especially ones as incredibly detailed as ALL of the PRS videos.
Thanks,
BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
"The purchase price of anything is irrelevant as long as you are prepared to extract all the value from the purchase." —Ted Turner's Dad
This is one of the wisest things I ever heard and very applicable to this thread. It gets completely to the heart of why and how to buy things, and what ownership truly entails—as well as pointing out the folly of getting too wrapped up in how much things cost to buy.
This is one of the wisest things I ever heard and very applicable to this thread. It gets completely to the heart of why and how to buy things, and what ownership truly entails—as well as pointing out the folly of getting too wrapped up in how much things cost to buy.
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Thanks, very cool!
Yeah, I visited Keith in Greensboro a few times. The first time to pick up this:
And the second time to pick out the wood for this:
And later to pick up the finished bass:
Thanks so much, enjoyed them both!
BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
i always enjoy seeing those LGs you have. now tell me if my eyes are playing tricks on me, do both have a 1.5" nut or is the one on the bottom wider?
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Good Eye!
The top one is 42mm at the nut and the buckeye is 46mm. I wanted one to feel more like a Jazz and the other to be more like a P.
BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
that's what i thought, but wasnt sure. i also thought maybe you wanted the wider neck to be similar to your PRS #11 (another of which i always enjoy seeing)
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Hello dedpool
Actually, prior to building the birdseye maple bass, I met Keith at a bass convention in NYC and brought PRS #11 with me. He measured all the neck dimensions and I told him if he wanted to go slightly narrower at the nut it was OK with me. The PRS was also 32.5" scale and I asked Keith for 32" standard medium scale, so Keith had to make a few adjustments for that. In the end the PRS is 43mm at the nut and the birdseye is 42mm - but Keith nailed the feel of that PRS #11 neck - I mean absolutely nailed it.
BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
Thats correct. Stradivarius might not even recognise some of his own instruments these days. Modern violins use metal strings (I assume for volume reasons) whereas in the days of Stradivarius they was catgut. The bridges on those old Strads aren't strong enough to support metal strings so they need to be changed to support modern strings. Lots of "old" violins have modern necks, new bass bars, on some I believe they have even changed the ribs! Not to mention the fact that modern violinists use very different bows when compared to what was used in the 17th and 18th centuries...
Needless to say I find it funny that people get quite so obsessed with these old violins as being the pinnacle to which all makers should aspire when they've pretty much all been modified extensively by modern luthiers!
Cool story BassHappy. so when you pick up the BEM LG, is it like "coming home" with the neck being so close to the PRS?
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Yup - only had one bass PRS #11 - from 1978-1999 and I finally had the PRS appraised in 1999 - around the time my band got signed to a new deal. Realized I had to retire the PRS from anything except recording in my own studio. Couldn't take it out of the house anymore.
But Keith did an incredible job of both building the replacement bass for me and talking me down off the ledge!
BassHappy
I will likely never buy another bass that costs over a grand. I do just fine playing a $1000 bass, and most of my basses cost way less. But that's me, and you wouldn't believe how little I care what someone else pays for a bass, and I would no sooner talk them out of spending that money as I would talk them out of spending $50 on a vintage Precision.
I find people who question what other people spend on musical gear to be agenda driven (as Ed Roman was) or insecure and jealous (and often broke) people who spend way too much time counting other people's money. I see it on a daily basis on here. I've even seen comments on here from the more delirious demanding that they sell their expensive basses and donate the money to charity...meanwhile, what the hell have they ever done for charities? To them, I give no respect whatsoever, and if I had any advice for them, I would tell them to shut the hell up and mind their own business.
I find people who question what other people spend on musical gear to be agenda driven (as Ed Roman was) or insecure and jealous (and often broke) people who spend way too much time counting other people's money. I see it on a daily basis on here. I've even seen comments on here from the more delirious demanding that they sell their expensive basses and donate the money to charity...meanwhile, what the hell have they ever done for charities? To them, I give no respect whatsoever, and if I had any advice for them, I would tell them to shut the hell up and mind their own business.
I don't think there is a specific rule or correlation between cost and quality in the broad sense. With certain builders, possibly, but not overall. I've played $100 basses that killed, and others that could only make a decent sound if smashed against a wall. On the other side of the spectrum, I've played boutiques I've loved, and others that were just a chore to play. I've still yet to play a musicman that I like, and some were over $3k. Some builders make consistent basses. Spectors seem pretty consistent. I prefer Warwicks, but they are all over the place in tone and playability.
I could liken expensive basses to expensive tennis rackets. I remember when (I was playing tennis) the Wilson T2000 came out - first metal racket and much more expensive than a wood racket. I bought one, and my game improved significantly. I was at the right level to appreciate the change, but not as good as the pro's who could take any piece of crap racket and win consistently. Consequently, they played whichever racket would pay them the most money. As other metal and then graphite rackets came out, they were much better than the Wilson and I traded up. Jimmy Connors played one for years, however - paid to do so.
Similar situation with expensive basses. When I got my first Pedulla - custom from the manufacturer and retail, I was good enough to appreciate how much better it played, and could certainly tell how much better it looked. I am not good enough to play great bass with any old POS bass, and am certainly not in the league to be a paid endorser. (I am a member of the mediocre bassist with expensive gear club). Therefore, the middle range player may actually be the one who can most appreciate playing an expensive bass (though anyone can appreciate a beautiful bass). Are they for everyone? certainly not. I have never regretted the purchase, however, and now have 2. (Looking for a 3rd - anyone with an Arctic night MVP-5 for sale, let me know.)
Similar situation with expensive basses. When I got my first Pedulla - custom from the manufacturer and retail, I was good enough to appreciate how much better it played, and could certainly tell how much better it looked. I am not good enough to play great bass with any old POS bass, and am certainly not in the league to be a paid endorser. (I am a member of the mediocre bassist with expensive gear club). Therefore, the middle range player may actually be the one who can most appreciate playing an expensive bass (though anyone can appreciate a beautiful bass). Are they for everyone? certainly not. I have never regretted the purchase, however, and now have 2. (Looking for a 3rd - anyone with an Arctic night MVP-5 for sale, let me know.)
To address your points here Ralph...I am really sorry that you feel that way about your Fodera....I never thought they were a particularly unique sounding bass like a Wal is. But it is most likely a better quality instrument than a Squire....if you prefer the Squires sound over it thats one thing but don't say that a Squire is on the same quality level because it just isn't true. Hold each instrument and play it and I am sure even you, could feel there IS a difference in quality. That being said if you don't like the tone of it and prefer the Squire thats your call....just don't try to convince us that it's so because "RALPH" says it is.
Although my car analogy is a bit exaggerated it still hold true. My Wals are not dragon shaped and look like a traditionally shaped bass. Exotic woods, hand wound pickups and filter based pre amp DO happen to equate to a better instrument....no one said anything about automatically....again if your Fodera fell short in these areas then I agree you overpaid for something that didn't deliver. Still doesn't convince me that a Squire is the same quality.
Your sock analogy is irrelevant. Custom basses are available through the luthier and MAYBE some high end guitar shops. You are not going to get them at a bargain price by going to Guitar Center. We also aren't talking about the SAME pair of socks bought at different stores...we are discussing Custom handmade basses vs. production instruments ....and the one you decided to compare happens to be one of the lower quality production instruments.
As far as my comments about Fender , I have a 77 jazz bass that I bought brand new and although it was my main bass for many years and I still LOVE IT TO DEATH, it does have some issues. Get back to me when your Squire is that old...ok? 8 years is not a long time to own an instrument.
I do agree with your statement that today there ARE mass produced instruments that ABSOLUTELY are QUALITY...I just disagree that a "SQUIRE" is one of them. I have compared American vs. Mexican Fenders and altho they look the same on the outside , they are not on the inside. Pickups ,wiring and wood quality and even the hardware are different ...how do you think Fender justifies the price difference on a MIA over a MIM? Is it because they are of different qualities or is it because the "Squire" decal costs less to produce than the "Fender" one?
BTW a Fodera is not twice as much as a Wal, I don't know where you are getting that information from ... I do agree that it's half the bass though.
My presumption is wrong?? Ever hear a record where you didn't like the tone of the bass Ralph? You know why that is? It's because some producer said "it sounded great". Is Eddie Kramer one of your clients? A lot of producers don't know good bass tone from bad bass tone and my comment wasn't even about their ignorance. It was about an actual "BASS PLAYER" who "knows" the difference. I am sure that most guys playing a quality instrument (Wal , Ken Smith, Tobias MTD, and maybe even a Fodera) comparing it to a Squire P bass is gonna buy the Squire based solely on price. I doubt they are thinking to themselves...wow that Squire really feels and sounds so much better than those other basses and wow it's only $300 bucks!! They are most likely buying it because they don't have the $10,000 to drop on an instrument....doesn't that make a bit more sense?
If you feel your Squire is superior to your Fodera (and I mean on EVERY aspect), then my friend you surely did get ripped off. As for the rest of us with quality instruments who dig them , don't try to convince us that we wasted our money...if I felt that I wouldn't own three of them.
And yes the answer to this Thread is "NO".
