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Are you a union member?

#221
Floyd Eye said:
Yeah maybe. Some of that old member/young member friction in my company too. Ironically, the younger generation are far less enamored with the union than the old heads and the old heads sold all of us out in the last contract.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.
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Most of the younger guys balk at paying dues. They all come around though. One of the fastest and easiest ways for a new foreman to get promoted is to get that "big bust." So they all nitpick and pull tricks to get that visibility. Their favorite is to wait until the shift leaves and then change the start time for certain people the next day. So usually everyone within 4-6 months of hire need a shop steward and a business agent. It's weird, they hire only inexperienced people who don't favor union labor, then drive them to become some of the biggest labor supporters by their own behavior.

When the public support for strikes is down, it's hard to retain all the benefits for new people. I thought my group were sold out too, but looking back the old guys did strike to retain new hire benefits, they just couldn't hold out. When I get frustrated with the union, just go talk to my neighbors for a few minutes. Usually cures that frustration quick.
 
#222
BawanaRik said:
Special interests who take.advantage of the general population losing popular support is no surprise.

I think as the public does a better job educating themselves any remaining support will vanish.
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I'm sorry you dislike the "special interest" of middle class jobs.

I really think your animosity is misplaced, especially as you've got by far the most posts in this thread, yet appear to have extremely limited firsthand experience with actual union work.
Floyd Eye said:
I don't know, my brother in law has been a proud Teamster and pro union guy for a very long time.
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OK. That doesn't mean that he can't exaggerate. I agree the Teamsters don't have the same clout they did when there weren't a bunch of "Right to Work" laws passed which limit their influence, or when a higher percentage of the population had union jobs:

union-membership-and-middle-class-income.jpg


But that doesn't mean they're powerless. They still represent over a million workers even if membership has been declining as it's been actively attacked by anti-labor groups and policies.
 
#223
Floyd Eye said:
Yeah maybe. Some of that old member/young member friction in my company too. Ironically, the younger generation are far less enamored with the union than the old heads and the old heads sold all of us out in the last contract.
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Sorry to hear. Don't have that problem here. We have a lot of retirements where I work and everyone expected younger members to not be involved, avoid the union, or just write off older members as 'jaded'. The word in the media was that no way would we get the 70% needed by state law. The strike vote last year came out at 92% of the workforce voting for a strike (98% of actual union members). Clear support from people working only a year or two. Tells you a lot about our working conditions and how quickly younger members figured out that a union was important to their continued participation in the profession.

FWIW, during our strike, we had 10,000 to 20,000 people in mass street rallies every day for five days in a row last Sept and enjoyed wide popular support here.
 
#224
redwookie said:
Sorry to hear. Don't have that problem here. We have a lot of retirements where I work and everyone expected younger members to not be involved, avoid the union, or just write off older members as 'jaded'. The word in the media was that no way would we get the 70% needed by state law. The strike vote last year came out at 92% of the workforce voting for a strike (98% of actual union members). Clear support from people working only a year or two. Tells you a lot about our working conditions and how quickly younger members figured out that a union was important to their continued participation in the profession.

FWIW, during our strike, we had 10,000 to 20,000 people in mass street rallies every day for five days in a row last Sept and enjoyed wide popular support here.
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That's good to hear. My dad's company has terminals in several cities and Chicago usually is one of the most united terminals they have. Followed by Kansas City.
 
#225
The current employers were "Grandfathered" in, given bonuses and decreasing benefits as well as several departments getting a wage freeze. Meanwhile, new hires would hire in at $7 less an hour, would take 2 years longer to reach full pay, were given dramatically less into their pensions and less benefits.

When I ask the old guys why they voted for this contract they all say they didn't. It passed by a good margin though. My shop steward who claims he didn't vote for it, says the old guys who are close to retirement all voted for it because they didn't want to chance a lock out this close to retirement.

Sucks. Still a pretty good job though and as it turns out I was able to get passed a lot of the wage differential through skill and the bidding process. So it is what it is.
 
#226
Floyd Eye said:
The current employers were "Grandfathered" in, given bonuses and decreasing benefits as well as several departments getting a wage freeze. Meanwhile, new hires would hire in at $7 less an hour, would take 2 years longer to reach full pay, were given dramatically less into their pensions and less benefits.

When I ask the old guys why they voted for this contract they all say they didn't. It passed by a good margin though. My shop steward who claims he didn't vote for it, says the old guys who are close to retirement all voted for it because they didn't want to chance a lock out this close to retirement.

Sucks. Still a pretty good job though and as it turns out I was able to get passed a lot of the wage differential through skill and the bidding process. So it is what it is.
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Divide and conquer. Everyone's subject to it. That's not a problem with unions, that's a problem with humanity.
 
#227
My company sent out a email to it's lower ranking white collar telling them that they would need to participate in weekend team building exercises. Those exercises would consist of general lawn maintenance around the property. Can you imagine being a 20yr secretary or a 27yr old new hire with a engineering degree and having your boss tell you that you had to come in on the weekend to do lawn maintenance for free because they are to cheap to pay a lawn service? And insult your intelligence by telling you it's for team building? And the way they treat any older white collar who hasn't made department head should be criminal. This is from a global company that has profits in the billions annually. So I generally view the small disputes I have with the union sometimes as a price I am willing to pay.
 
#228
blue4 said:
My company sent out a email to it's lower ranking white collar telling them that they would need to participate in weekend team building exercises. Those exercises would consist of general lawn maintenance around the property. Can you imagine being a 20yr secretary or a 27yr old new hire with a engineering degree and having your boss tell you that you had to come in on the weekend to do lawn maintenance for free because they are to cheap to pay a lawn service? And insult your intelligence by telling you it's for team building? And the way they treat any older white collar who hasn't made department head should be criminal. This is from a global company that has profits in the billions annually. So I generally view the small disputes I have with the union sometimes as a price I am willing to pay.
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Similar experience here. Over the economic recession, the middle and lower level management (non-union) has taken pay cuts and benefit cuts while the union members have had contractual pay increases.

Any time I want to see how I would be treated and compensated, I can look at both the competition (largely non-union) or the management team. I will retain my "joke" union representation over the alternatives.
 
#229
I am pro union, because I am pro worker. I do not belong to a union, but I know that many of the benefits that I enjoy are due to unions. People have DIED to get workers rights to where they are today, google "Winnipeg General Strike". RTW scares the daylights out of me, because it basically removes your right to unionize. Also, anyone that is anti-union, please go to work on Labour Day, it is not a holiday that you should be supporting.

lowsound
 
#230
iamlowsound said:
I am pro union, because I am pro worker. I do not belong to a union, but I know that many of the benefits that I enjoy are due to unions. People have DIED to get workers rights to where they are today, google "Winnipeg General Strike". RTW scares the daylights out of me, because it basically removes your right to unionize. Also, anyone that is anti-union, please go to work on Labour Day, it is not a holiday that you should be supporting.

lowsound
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wow,

You have my respect . Well said Sir
 
#231
Floyd Eye said:
The current employers were "Grandfathered" in, given bonuses and decreasing benefits as well as several departments getting a wage freeze. Meanwhile, new hires would hire in at $7 less an hour, would take 2 years longer to reach full pay, were given dramatically less into their pensions and less benefits.

When I ask the old guys why they voted for this contract they all say they didn't. It passed by a good margin though. My shop steward who claims he didn't vote for it, says the old guys who are close to retirement all voted for it because they didn't want to chance a lock out this close to retirement.

Sucks. Still a pretty good job though and as it turns out I was able to get passed a lot of the wage differential through skill and the bidding process. So it is what it is.
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We were kind of faced with a similar situation. Either lay off the younger employees with less seniority to keep our step pay increases, or take furlough days (a pay cut) and freeze any step wage increases. We opted to keep the younger employees. This january year will be my first pay raise in 6 years. I guess, it kind of depends on the people involved. I for one appreciate the younger employees in our union and the only lay offs happened last year to the employees that had temp contracts.
 
#236
Indiana Mike said:
not an argument but a question.

What's the median income ,especially for the "working class" vs cost of living in those states?
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Cost of Living Adjusted Median Household Income by State -

1) Maryland 62633
2) Minnesota 57140
3) Alaska 56649
4) New Jersey 56147
5) Connecticut 56052
6) New Hampshire 55260
7) Delaware 53757
8) Colorado 53077
9) Nevada 52858
10) Massachusetts 52620

...

41) New Mexico 45823
42) Kentucky 45806
43) Maine 45753
44) Montana 45679
45) Florida 45520
46) Alabama 44820
47) Louisiana 44357
48) Arkansas 43039
49) New York 42744
50) Mississippi 39649

1/10 of the highest salary states are RTW.

5/10 of the lowest salaried states are RTW.



Average Cost of Living Adjusted Median Household Income:

RTW states: $48,057
Non-RTW states: $51,615
 
#238
i worked a union job for 6 years, local 1500, they were 100% useless.

the were NOT worth the money they took out of my checks.

i hate to be stereotypical, but they really do keep the lazy employed.

this was in a supermarket, so i understand that lazy people are likely to land there moreso than in a teachers union or something, but it was still very annoying to pay these people so that my coworkers can slack off and leave me extra work to do, and they'll never get in trouble for it.
 
#239
groooooove said:
i worked a union job for 6 years, local 1500, they were 100% useless.

the were NOT worth the money they took out of my checks.

i hate to be stereotypical, but they really do keep the lazy employed.

this was in a supermarket, so i understand that lazy people are likely to land there moreso than in a teachers union or something, but it was still very annoying to pay these people so that my coworkers can slack off and leave me extra work to do, and they'll never get in trouble for it.
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If you hate to be stereotypical, then don't be stereotypical.
 
#240
groooooove said:
i worked a union job for 6 years, local 1500, they were 100% useless.

the were NOT worth the money they took out of my checks.

i hate to be stereotypical, but they really do keep the lazy employed.

this was in a supermarket, so i understand that lazy people are likely to land there moreso than in a teachers union or something, but it was still very annoying to pay these people so that my coworkers can slack off and leave me extra work to do, and they'll never get in trouble for it.
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You have this behavior non union as well .

I am not directing this at you! I've learned it myself the hard way. I still work hard but know some do and some don't. I also know if you kill yourself at work it becomes expected of YOU, and you screw yourself .

Pace yourself

I have a few friends that bitch about " doing all the work while others slack"

I tell when in Rome do as the Romans do.

Get it ?

Some people do this to themselves. Not a union ,or not a union ,or some alien force , or brain worms. Some people do work really hard and just don't understand many do the minimum.
 

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