Are you a union member?

[BawanaRik]

Unions are only as strong as the people that support them. There's a thread full of posters here bashing them and decades of laws that've been diminishing their power. It's hard to be as strong when both public and legislative support is waning.

A "joke" is probably hyperbole, but they don't have the same clout that they did several decades ago.

Special interests who take.advantage of the general population losing popular support is no surprise.

I think as the public does a better job educating themselves any remaining support will vanish.

 

[redwookie]

A 'clearance' is required for what? To work with kids again?

Not to get off topic but: Most school districts require finger prints, will do a statewide check, and ask you to disclose your arrest record. Pedophiles do indeed try to get jobs in schools as teachers, substitute teachers, coaches, and security.

 

[Floyd Eye]

A "joke" is probably hyperbole, but they don't have the same clout that they did several decades ago.

I don't know, my brother in law has been a proud Teamster and pro union guy for a very long time.

 

[Tituscrow]

Most school districts require finger prints, will do a statewide check, and ask you to disclose your arrest record. Pedophiles do indeed try to get jobs in schools as teachers, substitute teachers, coaches, and security.

Yes, I am aware of all that...I misunderstood the post. I thought he was saying that the 'clearance' in question was to get a jailed teacher back in the classroom.

In England, you need a Criminal Records Bureau check and sometimes a List 99 check to do any kind of work with kids.

Legislation has tightened up considerably in recent years, especially since some high profile cases where monsters have somehow slipped through the net.

Anyway, nothing to do with unions, but an interesting minor derail.

Carry on.

 

[DerHoggz]

Yes. I thought that was obvious from the post.

Thanks for giving me a chance to make that perfectly clear

Considering the education required and work involved, they are not high-paid.

 

[BawanaRik]

Considering the education required and work involved, they are not high-paid.

Really. It's my understanding they make close to twice what the average American makes.

It's my opinion that's high. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. I recall reading about the retirement of my high school math teacher. I seem to recall him getting a pension that was either 6 figures or close to it. He retired early.

And as far as education required the Wall Street Journal, today's issue front page addresses this issue. It seems there's a question of weather some of this higher education leads to results in the classroom.

In fact I don't now of any private sector job that provides large raises just for getting a degree. Many require that the employee actually provide value for the raise. It's very possible that the 10 billion plus going out the door for these "advance degrees" is being wasted. This is in addition to the hundreds of billion already being spent.

But like I said we are all entitled to our opinions. I'd would lie to hear a bit more about yours.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Really. It's my understanding they make close to twice what the average American makes.

It's my opinion that's high. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. I recall reading about the retirement of my high school math teacher. I seem to recall him getting a pension that was either 6 figures or close to it. He retired early.

And as far as education required the Wall Street Journal, today's issue front page addresses this issue. It seems there's a question of weather some of this higher education leads to results in the classroom.

In fact I don't now of any private sector job that provides large raises just for getting a degree. Many require that the employee actually provide value for the raise. It's very possible that the 10 billion plus going out the door for these "advance degrees" is being wasted. This is in addition to the hundreds of billion already being spent.

But like I said we are all entitled to our opinions. I'd would lie to hear a bit more about yours.

Teachers are grossly underpaid. At least at the elementary and high school level. Tenured professors are a different story and the NEA is completely out of control, but I digress. Most teachers make significantly less than what I make and I didn't need a college education to get my job. I have one, but that is irrelevant.

 

[Tituscrow]

Really. It's my understanding they make close to twice what the average American makes.

It's my opinion that's high. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. I recall reading about the retirement of my high school math teacher. I seem to recall him getting a pension that was either 6 figures or close to it. He retired early.

And as far as education required the Wall Street Journal, today's issue front page addresses this issue. It seems there's a question of weather some of this higher education leads to results in the classroom.

In fact I don't now of any private sector job that provides large raises just for getting a degree. Many require that the employee actually provide value for the raise. It's very possible that the 10 billion plus going out the door for these "advance degrees" is being wasted. This is in addition to the hundreds of billion already being spent.

But like I said we are all entitled to our opinions. I'd would lie to hear a bit more about yours.

Why don't you start a thread about the long term benefits of higher education and its link to earning power.

This thread is about trade unions.

 

[BawanaRik]

Why don't you start a thread about the long term benefits of higher education and its link to earning power.

This thread is about trade unions.

I was responding to a post about the highly educated status of teachers and this timely piece of data fit into this response so well that I gave it a go.

 

[fmoore200]

Yes. I thought that was obvious from the post.

Thanks for giving me a chance to make that perfectly clear

No problem

I was asking because you seem like a pretty smart guy, so I find it a little strange that you wouldn't know that teachers (in general) don't make as much money as a other professionals with the same amount of education.

Heck, I still haven't finished my degree and I make more than most teachers.

I'm not saying they make chump change, but they are definitely not the "highly paid" and "powerful"group you are making them out to be.

Hopefully I won't need any more clarification

 

[BawanaRik]

Teachers are grossly underpaid. At least at the elementary and high school level. Tenured professors are a different story and the NEA is completely out of control, but I digress. Most teachers make significantly less than what I make and I didn't need a college education to get my job. I have one, but that is irrelevant.

The average US paycheck is about 45 K a year.

But please tell me what you think teachers make and what they should get paid.

I would find that fascinating! And Titus has requested that all discussion of degrees and such go find another thread so keep focused.

 

[BawanaRik]

No problem

I was asking because you seem like a pretty smart guy, so I find it a little strange that you wouldn't know that teachers (in general) don't make as much money as a other professionals with the same amount of education.

Heck, I still haven't finished my degree and I make more than most teachers.

I'm not saying they make chump change, but they are definitely not the "highly paid" and "powerful"group you are making them out to be.

Hopefully I won't need any more clarification

Bill Gates never finished his degree and his salary, I believe it was 100K a year was more than many teachers make.

But he changed the world. Provided jobs for hundred of thousands of people and is one of the reason we can talk like this.

I went through a public school and am fortunate I was able to read when I got there or I would be in sorry shape by now.

 

[Floyd Eye]

The average US paycheck is about 45 K a year.

But please tell me what you think teachers make and what they should get paid.

I would find that fascinating! And Titus has requested that all discussion of degrees and such go find another thread so keep focused.

Primary and high school teachers here start at around 32k. First year on my job paid about double that. Around here a teacher making what I make, even after many years of service is not very common, other than in the very affluent areas.

Most people I know aren't really making 45k a year or better, but that's really a more recent thing because of the economy.

 

[fmoore200]

Really. It's my understanding they make close to twice what the average American makes.

It's my opinion that's high. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. I recall reading about the retirement of my high school math teacher. I seem to recall him getting a pension that was either 6 figures or close to it. He retired early.

And as far as education required the Wall Street Journal, today's issue front page addresses this issue. It seems there's a question of weather some of this higher education leads to results in the classroom.

In fact I don't now of any private sector job that provides large raises just for getting a degree. Many require that the employee actually provide value for the raise. It's very possible that the 10 billion plus going out the door for these "advance degrees" is being wasted. This is in addition to the hundreds of billion already being spent.

But like I said we are all entitled to our opinions. I'd would lie to hear a bit more about yours.

The average US paycheck is about 45 K a year.

But please tell me what you think teachers make and what they should get paid.

I would find that fascinating! And Titus has requested that all discussion of degrees and such go find another thread so keep focused.

So the average teacher in the united states makes upwards of $85,000?

 

[redwookie]

You're dealing with a massive power imbalance here. A wealthy educated powerful person with the backing of one of the most powerful groups on the planet and you tell the vics to get their own representation? It's my opinion that's really not fair.

A scary job? I disagree.

Teaching? Scary? Dude, you have no idea....

As a proud Union teacher:

Last year
- 3 students accused a school security person of hitting one of them. (I saw the incident. No one was touched). His Union representative protected him.
- A teacher (and football coach) was accused (falsely) of hitting a student. His Union protected him and he is now back.

When a teacher a teacher goes to administration about a student being (illegally) being placed in the wrong class, it is only the Union contract that allowed them to advocate for students without fear of losing a job.

Without a Union, some school districts would probably still force pregnant teachers to quit so as not to be a bad influence (like my wife's grandmother had to do).

Teachers and school security are almost daily dealing with false accusations by retaliatory students. In addition, screaming and profanity at adults are daily occurrences.

Scary? I have seen 2 riots in the school building in the last few years complete with over a dozen squad cars.

Scary? I learned to hear the difference (by the rhythm!) between a 45 single shot, 44 semi-automatic, and a 38 from my classroom window. I have personally seen a gun fired twice from a classroom window.

Scary? The last unannounced book bag check caught 18 knifes and one loaded gun.

Scary? Have you ever tried to brake up a fight between 10-15 young adults?

Scary? How many times have you been threatened with physical harm by a student just because you were telling a student to SitDown/StopLoudTalking?

My Union offers me protection from unreasonable accusations as well as unreasonable requests for unpaid overtime.

When I am asked to work unpaid overtime, in addition to the unpaid overtime I already spend coachingbaseball/tutoring/gradingpapers/lessonplaning/goingtogames/chaperoningdances/playingmusicwithstudentsafterschool, my Union contract protects me and allows me to say no not this time.

Teach in a non-union classroom? No way.

 

[DerHoggz]

Teachers are grossly underpaid. At least at the elementary and high school level. Tenured professors are a different story and the NEA is completely out of control, but I digress. Most teachers make significantly less than what I make and I didn't need a college education to get my job. I have one, but that is irrelevant.

The NEA is a fun one for sure.

 

[fmoore200]

Teaching? Scary? Dude, you have no idea....

As a proud Union teacher:

Last year
- 3 students accused a school security person of hitting one of them. (I saw the incident. No one was touched). His Union representative protected him.
- A teacher (and football coach) was accused (falsely) of hitting a student. His Union protected him and he is now back.

When a teacher a teacher goes to administration about a student being (illegally) being placed in the wrong class, it is only the Union contract that allowed them to advocate for students without fear of losing a job.

Without a Union, some school districts would probably still force pregnant teachers to quit so as not to be a bad influence (like my wife's grandmother had to do).

Teachers and school security are almost daily dealing with false accusations by retaliatory students. In addition, screaming and profanity at adults are daily occurrences.

Scary? I have seen 2 riots in the school building in the last few years complete with over a dozen squad cars.

Scary? I learned to hear the difference (by the rhythm!) between a 45 single shot, 44 semi-automatic, and a 38 from my classroom window. I have personally seen a gun fired twice from a classroom window.

Scary? The last unannounced book bag check caught 18 knifes and one loaded gun.

Scary? Have you ever tried to brake up a fight between 10-15 young adults?

Scary? How many times have you been threatened with physical harm by a student just because you were telling a student to SitDown/StopLoudTalking?

My Union offers me protection from unreasonable accusations as well as unreasonable requests for unpaid overtime.

When I am asked to work unpaid overtime, in addition to the unpaid overtime I already spend coachingbaseball/tutoring/gradingpapers/lessonplaning/goingtogames/chaperoningdances/playingmusicwithstudentsafterschool, my Union contract protects me and allows me to say no not this time.

Teach in a non-union classroom? No way.

I remember a teacher breaking up a fight when I was in high school and she wound up with a broken ankle.

She still came to work.

 

[fmoore200]

In the spirit of the OP, I'll share a story of an experience I am having at work and why I'm glad I have a union:

I am a good, hard working employee (I have the awards to prove it! ). The other day while in a layover, I was confronted in a threatening way by a supervisor.

Now I did nothing wrong, and the way he went about talking to me was unprofessional to say the least. Without a union, I would have had to take this abuse, because of fear for my job.

 

[BawanaRik]

In the spirit of the OP, I'll share a story of an experience I am having at work and why I'm glad I have a union:

I am a good, hard working employee (I have the awards to prove it! ). The other day while in a layover, I was confronted in a threatening way by a supervisor.

Now I did nothing wrong, and the way he went about talking to me was unprofessional to say the least. Without a union, I would have had to take this abuse, because of fear for my job.

Been there done that. It's my opinion that If this is worst thing that's happened to you are just so lucky.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

It sounds like you're unable to control the classroom. I doubt if many students are getting the education they are paying for.

May I suggest you work on that and get back to me with an update of your progess.

Seriously? Wow...