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Are you a union member?

#141
Floyd Eye said:
Well, to be totally fair, while I seen plenty of examples of exactly what I am talking about in the carpenter's union, I also seen plenty of examples of what you are talking about. Again, I am not anti union. Like everything it is not black or white. There is a lot of gray.
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The first time I read that, or something similar about the greys it was Xmen. And quite a while ago.

May people see thing as black or white rather than greys with a connection to them or us rather than any we. And as I think we've all noticed polemics rule.

The corollary to this is that there is usually plenty of blame to spread around.
 
#143
Floyd Eye said:
Not really. These things existed at my company before unions. In fact, in my prior employment the vast majority of these things existed. In the 80s I was a union carpenter. I ended up turning in my card to avoid starving to death. Carpenter's union did nothing for me either.
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They exist outside the union because unions also typically set the standard for compensation. Employers who are not union have to give competitive wages to acquire non-union personnel -- they're usually not going to be as good but at least within the ballpark.
Floyd Eye said:
Hey, I am not anti union. You guys like your union, that's great. Que sera sera. It's when you hard line guys start demanding that everyone else bow to your authority that I get pissed off. You have no right to dictate what entities utilize only union work? If the city I live in wants to hire non union contractors to pave the parking lot at the local park that has nothing to do with you.
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I don't see a closed shop being that much different from protections against non-US citizens working inside the US. There's a planet full of people who will undercut a good working US wage, and it's only through creating barriers that supply and demand don't make any of us (not just union guys) at the whim of whoever has the most money.
 
#144
Tituscrow said:
I've been in a trade union my entire working life. In teaching, most people join a union for support and protection should they be either a)accused of behaving inappropriately with kids, b) find their jobs under threat due to restructuring or redeployment, c) for support should their competency be questioned, or d) for protection when working conditions and terms of employment come under threat.

Of course there are other reasons, but in my experience, they are the main ones, and even though its teaching rather than construction or healthcare or clerical work, the fundamental reason for joining is a belief that workers who unite are less likely to be exploited.

Without getting into political territory, I'm happy to say that my union are taking industrial action next week by striking for a day, and the decision was made by myself and every colleague I've spoken to in a heartbeat without a moments hesitation.
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What good would the union do in the case of inappropriate behavior with a student. Wouldn't that be a criminal matter automatically. The union could not even begin to address this because you would loose your teaching certificate. (if proven guilty) :p
 
#145
surgay said:
What good would the union do in the case of inappropriate behavior with a student. Wouldn't that be a criminal matter automatically. The union could not even begin to address this because you would loose your teaching certificate. (if proven guilty) :p
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Sorry, I should have clarified...unproven accusations/allegations of inappropriate behaviour with children. This can be anything from using bad language to intimidate or humiliate a kid, all the way to full on child abuse of a physical/sexual nature.

If the evidence is overwhelming and of a criminal nature, and the accused is deemed to be guilty, then of course police are involved, but the union will provide legal support.

Of course if then found guilty, then the offender naturally faces the full wrath of the courts. Losing their teaching job would be the least of their worries.
 
#146
As far as unions protecting lazy workers it's impossible in the field I work in. Every piece of heavy equipment has GPS on it and unless your on some scheduled break if the shovel or rubber bull or whatever it is sits for more than 5 minutes without moving it's recorded and you are talked to.
 
#147
alembicguy said:
As far as unions protecting lazy workers it's impossible in the field I work in. Every piece of heavy equipment has GPS on it and unless your on some scheduled break if the shovel or rubber bull or whatever it is sits for more than 5 minutes without moving it's recorded and you are talked to.
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Ours have GPS too. So do all the dump trucks. Yet I have several co-workers who haul about half of what I do and they operate at about 1/3 the speed I do. These are guys with 20 years in too so it isn't like I am ( or should be ) a better operator than they are.
 
#148
Tituscrow said:
Sorry, I should have clarified...unproven accusations/allegations of inappropriate behaviour with children. This can be anything from using bad language to intimidate or humiliate a kid, all the way to full on child abuse of a physical/sexual nature.

If the evidence is overwhelming and of a criminal nature, and the accused is deemed to be guilty, then of course police are involved, but the union will provide legal support.

Of course if then found guilty, then the offender naturally faces the full wrath of the courts. Losing their teaching job would be the least of their worries.
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Interesting you say that, about losing their job being the least of their worries.

I read, hard copy so do not ask for a link, about a principal who spent a good bit of time going to prisons to negotiate severance packages with convicts who were teachers. Protected teachers.
 
#149
My husband is a union member. This particular union (a UAW, don't know the number) is utter crap. A year and a half ago they had a negotiation. Not only did their wages (which were only "meh" to begin with) go down, their health care plans went from decent to pretty horrific - but gotta pay more out of each paycheck anyway. He basically says his union is made up of lazy old farts who just don't care about anything any more because they'll all be retiring in a few years - so new hires are screwed royally. The new hires have a wage freeze for 5 years, and can't advance in the company because of the senority issue. My husband is one of the best workers on his shift, but he will never get a raise or get to move up far in the ranks because of all the lazy, bitter "I've got 30 years in this company but I hate it and I hate all the new hires because they work circles around me" old farts who actively apply for new positions JUST to thwart the younger workers. Younger being anyone under 40 (he's 33).

Yeah, he actually overheard that conversation amongst some of the older workers. They really do go out of their way to make it hard for new hires and threw them under the bus so they could keep their own wages and benefits until retirement but freeze the wages of anyone new coming in. Of course the company loved the idea because they saved money by not having to give cost of living/good work/new position raises... down side? They can't keep any good new workers because most of them quit once they find out just what BS the union has pulled there. If there were any other viable jobs in the area, my husband would be out of that craphole in a heartbeat, but with a family and a house...well, you get what you can get in this economy. But no, we're not fond of this particular union, as it has done just the opposite of what a union should be doing.
 
#150
Sijjvra said:
My husband is a union member. This particular union (a UAW, don't know the number) is utter crap. A year and a half ago they had a negotiation. Not only did their wages (which were only "meh" to begin with) go down, their health care plans went from decent to pretty horrific - but gotta pay more out of each paycheck anyway. He basically says his union is made up of lazy old farts who just don't care about anything any more because they'll all be retiring in a few years - so new hires are screwed royally. The new hires have a wage freeze for 5 years, and can't advance in the company because of the senority issue. My husband is one of the best workers on his shift, but he will never get a raise or get to move up far in the ranks because of all the lazy, bitter "I've got 30 years in this company but I hate it and I hate all the new hires because they work circles around me" old farts who actively apply for new positions JUST to thwart the younger workers. Younger being anyone under 40 (he's 33).

Yeah, he actually overheard that conversation amongst some of the older workers. They really do go out of their way to make it hard for new hires and threw them under the bus so they could keep their own wages and benefits until retirement but freeze the wages of anyone new coming in. Of course the company loved the idea because they saved money by not having to give cost of living/good work/new position raises... down side? They can't keep any good new workers because most of them quit once they find out just what BS the union has pulled there. If there were any other viable jobs in the area, my husband would be out of that craphole in a heartbeat, but with a family and a house...well, you get what you can get in this economy. But no, we're not fond of this particular union, as it has done just the opposite of what a union should be doing.
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Sounds extremely familiar to the situation I am in.
 
#151
Sijjvra said:
My husband is a union member. This particular union (a UAW, don't know the number) is utter crap. A year and a half ago they had a negotiation. Not only did their wages (which were only "meh" to begin with) go down, their health care plans went from decent to pretty horrific - but gotta pay more out of each paycheck anyway. He basically says his union is made up of lazy old farts who just don't care about anything any more because they'll all be retiring in a few years - so new hires are screwed royally. The new hires have a wage freeze for 5 years, and can't advance in the company because of the senority issue. My husband is one of the best workers on his shift, but he will never get a raise or get to move up far in the ranks because of all the lazy, bitter "I've got 30 years in this company but I hate it and I hate all the new hires because they work circles around me" old farts who actively apply for new positions JUST to thwart the younger workers. Younger being anyone under 40 (he's 33).

Yeah, he actually overheard that conversation amongst some of the older workers. They really do go out of their way to make it hard for new hires and threw them under the bus so they could keep their own wages and benefits until retirement but freeze the wages of anyone new coming in. Of course the company loved the idea because they saved money by not having to give cost of living/good work/new position raises... down side? They can't keep any good new workers because most of them quit once they find out just what BS the union has pulled there. If there were any other viable jobs in the area, my husband would be out of that craphole in a heartbeat, but with a family and a house...well, you get what you can get in this economy. But no, we're not fond of this particular union, as it has done just the opposite of what a union should be doing.
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I guess it's relative. The UAW typical loaded compensation is $150,000 a year. I would gladly take half that.
 
#152
BawanaRik said:
Interesting you say that, about losing their job being the least of their worries.

I read, hard copy so do not ask for a link, about a principal who spent a good bit of time going to prisons to negotiate severance packages with convicts who were teachers. Protected teachers.
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Not in England. If you are guilty of an offence against a child that warrants a prison term, there is no school that will touch you again, let alone a union who will represent you.
 
#153
I ran a non-union shop for the last 10 years of my career. Union agents would approach our employees occasionally, but I never worried about an election because the union would lose if it came to that. I gets down to how you treat your employees. You can bet that if we went union, there would be no year-end bonuses for the employees.

One of our offices has contracts with Project Labor Agreements. We pay the employees on those jobs union wages and contribute to the union retirement fund, but we don't have to be a union shop.

On some jobs that required union personnel, we subcontracted the work to a union shop. Since there are so few union shops in our business, we'd get people who were either inexperienced or incompetent, and we had to have our own people on the job with them to keep them from screwing it up. So they got free training at our expense.
 
#157
Munjibunga said:
I ran a non-union shop for the last 10 years of my career. Union agents would approach our employees occasionally, but I never worried about an election because the union would lose if it came to that. I gets down to how you treat your employees. You can bet that if we went union, there would be no year-end bonuses for the employees.

One of our offices has contracts with Project Labor Agreements. We pay the employees on those jobs union wages and contribute to the union retirement fund, but we don't have to be a union shop.

On some jobs that required union personnel, we subcontracted the work to a union shop. Since there are so few union shops in our business, we'd get people who were either inexperienced or incompetent, and we had to have our own people on the job with them to keep them from screwing it up. So they got free training at our expense.
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I can agree with this .

A lot of employers just don't treat it compensate in a fashion that keeps unions out.

Our trade is the opposite ,few non union doing what we do ,so the effect is opposite.

One side of my trade involves a lot of specialized work and certified welders. The one way a union benefits them is they can travel and bounce from one contractor to another without a change in retirement or health benefits
 
#159
Vince Klortho said:
I have a question for you guys. My brother-in-law was a dues-paying member of a trade union for thirty years until he retired. This union has a policy that if you do any kind of work and receive payment for it then all of your retirement benefits are terminated permanently. I don't know if this policy is nation-wide or only from the local chapter.

Does this seem reasonable to you?
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No. He should have thought of that before joining the union.

Win some loose some.

I bet a job would feel real good. Have some purpose in life. Meet new people etc etc.
 

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