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Are you a union member?

Union.

My current Union job (things I could never do before)
- health INS (for family)
- purchased a NEW car (suitably reliable for family, I ride a bike daily)
- purchased a house
- actual family vacactions
- holidays off
- some measue of protection from supervisor retaliation

What's not to like?
 
And the equivalent to that would be any factory owner who locates in a non RTW state is like a chicken walking into the KFC factory.
If we had federal consistency in labor law we wouldn't have this issue.
I had all that without a union.
I am glad you've done well for yourself. Statistics suggest you'll have a better chance of achieving those goals with a union, but it's obviously not impossible to do so without.
 
If we had federal consistency in labor law we wouldn't have this issue.

I am glad you've done well for yourself. Statistics suggest you'll have a better chance of achieving those goals with a union, but it's obviously not impossible to do so without.

Wait, are you trying to tell me a single anecdote isn't worth solid nationwide data?!

Heresy.
 
Crane Operator with the Operating Engineers Local 542 in Philly. I love when people bad mouth unions, it just makes me laugh and shake my head. Non union people tend to regurgitate two things about unions they heard on Fox News and pass then off as their own "original" thoughts, "unions have served there purpose, we don't need them anymore" and "unions protect lazy people" neither of which are true, at least in my union. Remember this, if we didn't need unions, they wouldn't exist, nobody WANTS to pay union dues.
 
Spent a large part of my professional career in the business of building stuff that handled, transported, or maintained things that go boom, along with some things that went boom on command and yet even more things not intended to do so, but perfectly capable of going boom if not handled correctly.

In short, the lives of a lot of people depended on us getting it exactly right every time.

As you might imagine, the bulk of this was done for our Uncle and if it had potential for disaster, union labor was required to build it. This was not because some senator was paying back unions for their support it was because unions had their own set of internal competency testing procedures which insured a consistently higher quality product with a near zero scrap rate. Each individual part had to be traceable back to it's fabricator and every weld had to be traceable back to the guy who actually ran the bead, and union labor was always capable of providing sufficient numbers of properly qualified and experienced hands to get the job done within the scheduled time constraints. We (management) handled scheduling and logistics and such, and the union took care of insuring we had enough of the right people to get the job done with a reasonable expectation of a job done right the first time.

Would you prefer an experienced journeyman building your MIRV ground transport pallets and nuclear reactor cores, or would you be Ok with some high school dropout with a low grade meth habit and 3 months of OJT as a helper doing it?

I once ran a CNC machine shop where the only persistent problem I had was convincing upper management that hiring "button monkeys" fresh off the grill at the local burger joint was not a good idea.

There is still plenty of need for union labor. Unfortunately abuse of union power and relentless negative PR from those who have everything to gain by seeing unions scuttled have made it a rather hot topic these days. Attempting to paint all unions with the same negative brush is as disingenuous as trying to sell the idea that all unions are good and have only the best interests of their members at heart.
 
If we had federal consistency in labor law we wouldn't have this issue.

I am glad you've done well for yourself. Statistics suggest you'll have a better chance of achieving those goals with a union, but it's obviously not impossible to do so without.

It's quite possible none of us would have jobs in the first scenario.

And as far as the second I found that getting an education and developing sills were fairer way of making myself valuable.
 
Wait, are you trying to tell me a single anecdote isn't worth solid nationwide data?!

Heresy.

Actually many of the people I know were capable of doing well by just being valuable. No need for violence or other thug activities.

In fact education develop a marketable skill set and success seem pretty much what I hope for future generations.

I fail to see any other sustainable future.
 
Actually many of the people I know were capable of doing well by just being valuable. No need for violence or other thug activities.

In fact education develop a marketable skill set and success seem pretty much what I hope for future generations.

I fail to see any other sustainable future.

Are you implying that being in a union is akin to violence or other thug activities? Because I really don't see why you bring that up.
 
You're imagining things.



You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...
It's quite possible none of us would have jobs in the first scenario.

And as far as the second I found that getting an education and developing sills were fairer way of making myself valuable.
How do you figure that no one would have jobs? There are nations with much higher union percentages that do very well (see most of northern Europe).

Also, while not all trades require the same amount of training, some of it is very, very specialized. Your college degree will likely not provide much ability to do electrical work, or welding, or the many government positions which require advanced degrees.
 
Kind of silly arguing absolutes IMO.
Like many things, there are positives and negatives on either side.
It's the people involved or running the show that either make it great or f it up, regardless of whether a company is unionized or not.
If you have a union, you need balance and you're set, if you do not have one then you had better hope that you're employer's fair and good to their employees. Either can change with even one idiot ruining it.