Double Bass As a jazz player, what do you practise with the bow?

[logdrum]

I guess I should clarify. I think it's it's entirely possible to swing with the bow, but stylistically I don't think the way the instrument speaks typically fits in with jazz very well. There is an excerpt in the Olivier Babaz video where he was playing more of a country swing style, and that's where I think the sound fits.

Years ago I had the pleasure of running a country band for a couple of years for the Air Force. One year for our annual holiday extravaganza I played fiddle and sang background vocals instead playing bass. Here's one of the songs we covered.

Understand but jazz is a wide spectrum. Paul Chamber solos to William Parker and Noel Leandre wailing and the extended range and sounds of Mark Dresser the bow has a lot to offer. It's not all Lincoln Center and Wynton Marsalis. We need Damon Smith to explain this better. @damonsmith. Back to Olivier, even if he is just within the confines of so called "Gypsy" Jazz, his solos are beyond country swing style, Sounds bebop and hard bop to me.

 

[Wasnex]

Back to Olivier, even if he is just within the confines of so called "Gypsy" Jazz, his solos are beyond country swing style, Sounds bebop and hard bop to me.

It's obviously just me . Regardless of what jazz styles are bowed, it just makes me think of a couple of chickens scratchin around in the dust .

So far I haven't heard any bowing that speaks like a bari sax, which would be my goal if I wanted to swing with a bow. Not saying it can't be done...just that I haven't heard it.


15 years or so ago, I explored the idea of playing swing solos with the bow for about a week. I became frustrated and quit .

 

[lurk]

I never solo with the bow and rarely use it at all in a jazz setting, but it takes up around 1/3 of my practice time. I don't work on chops - don't need them - but absolutely nothing gets your intonation together and nothing gets your bass vibrating like the bow. Both of these things transfer to your pizz playing in a big way. Also if you play any"music business" gigs the ability to play simple Arco things gracefully and clearly can go a long way towards getting called for the next one.

 

[damonsmith]

There are stories that Monk agreed with @Wasnex !
For a legit sound in Jazz I would point to the late Terry Plumeri

And good arco from both of these guys:

This is probably the best Mingus arco recorded:

 

[Martin Spure]

Sweet Jaysus, Mary 'n' @&$@'in' Joseph !!! Wow That's some outstanding and incredible playing, right there. Holy moly; your technique and skills are on a level I can only dream of ever acquiring.

This thread has renewed my interest to start practicing with the bow again. Thanks a lot for these videos, Ed.. and thanks to all the other posters for valuable practice suggestions, videos and insight.. much appreciated

(Slightly O.T.) : 25 yrs ago I played a lot with a Tenor sax player who - for some reason - utterly and wholeheartedly disliked bowed bass solos. He mockingly referred to them as "chainsaw massacres" ... Although I disagree, the analogy is ..well.. 'striking'

 

[mittenwald]

I highly recommend John Goldsby’s book Jazz Bowing Techniques for the Improvising Bassist. I’ve used it a lot, and think it really helps develop ideas for how to swing with the bow.

Instead of just sawing every note, the book describes how to swing with the bow using different bowings, similar to how saxophone players tongue the offbeats. There’s also some great transcriptions with the bowings marked.

 

[damonsmith]

Agreed. I got that book right when I started. I walked into a music store and bought it - that is how long ago!

I highly recommend John Goldsby’s book Jazz Bowing Techniques for the Improvising Bassist. I’ve used it a lot, and think it really helps develop ideas for how to swing with the bow.

Instead of just sawing every note, the book describes how to swing with the bow using different bowings, similar to how saxophone players tongue the offbeats. There’s also some great transcriptions with the bowings marked.

 

[Sean Riddle]

There are stories that Monk agreed with @Wasnex !
For a legit sound in Jazz I would point to the late Terry Plumeri

And good arco from both of these guys:

This is probably the best Mingus arco recorded:

Another great Mingus arco recording. A different vibe than that Tijuana Moods track, but definitely in the same level in my opinion.

 

[notabene]

Playing along with the complete scale means you are adjusting to external cues for intonation, instead of hearing and making the adjustments "instantly"[/QUOTE]. Adjusting to

That is what I am after. Adjusting ,listening to others is my goal.
Another benefit to this "matching to external cues" is the difference in sound when you are perfectly in tune. The bass opens up, the strings feel more flexible, and the volume seems much greater. A few cents off, and your Amati bass sudenly turns back into a cheap chinese model. In tune with others lets the bass sing.

 

[amusicbass123]

Great topic.

For myself: I just practice heads to tunes and lines and obviously do a fair amount of transcribing. I'd like to sound as much like a horn player as I can with the bow, that's the goal. I think proficiency with the bow allows fluency on the instrument that is hard to achieve when picking all the notes.

Re: Jazz Arco (I'm going to talk about bop type jazz as that's the only way of playing I've really studied and have proficiency in) Here's a hard truth: most bass solos are terrible. Particularly arco solos. They're pretty uninformed for lack of a better phrase. Your arco soloing is only as good as the music in your head and I think we should be honest with ourselves about playing real music --by "real" I mean idiomatically appropriate. Musicians that have trained themselves to be able to hear correct and interesting harmonic motion hear it immediately and tune out when they don't, because they don't like boring music! This is usually why the band starts talking during the bass solo, not because its a solo on a bass.

What I'm saying is you can practice scales and arpeggios over chords until the cows come home but unless you really dig into why the music works you'll just be sawing away. My arco playing got 100 x better the moment I started to transcribe and really embrace the music as a language.

Ari Roland is a monster player with the bow and really knows what he's doing, he plays music. Check this out, this is the real #$%#:

,

he's just teaching music in the video, here's him taking a killing arco solo at 3:16



Thanks,
Alex Spradling

 

[shepdave]

Alex, those are some killer clips that Ed Fuqua posted up the thread, those three YouTube videos of you playing along with the records! Amazing arco playing!

 

[mittenwald]

Ari Roland is a monster player with the bow and really knows what he's doing, he plays music.

Ari Roland is a jazz genius with the bow.
What I always notice when I see videos of him playing is that he is mostly soloing in the middle ‘tenor’ range of the neck. It’s kind of a default position, with occasional forays into thumb position, and very rarely into the low positions.

It’s a very different approach to Paul Chambers, another genius, who bowed mostly in the lower positions.

 

[Don Kasper]

Here's a hard truth: most bass solos are terrible.

Tru Dat.
Needed to be said.
Thank You, amusicbass123.
Big fan of your performances that you've posted, BTW.

 

[amusicbass123]

Ari Roland is a jazz genius with the bow.
What I always notice when I see videos of him playing is that he is mostly soloing in the middle ‘tenor’ range of the neck. It’s kind of a default position, with occasional forays into thumb position, and very rarely into the low positions.

It’s a very different approach to Paul Chambers, another genius, who bowed mostly in the lower positions.

Ari is the man. He always plays guts and without amplification and he likes real comping behind his solos so I think the middle register is a good place to hang out since the notes punch through nicely.

Check this out!

 

[damonsmith]

I also agree. In improvised music, people don't tend to get solos. In the best case, a musician is left on their own when taking care of the music that "needs" to be played in the moment by themselves.

Arco practice of the heads, arpeggios and common extensions of each chord in the tune as well as playing the roots arco to uncover the low counter melody the root movement creates can help you get deeper into the tune so you can really work with the material in your solo rather than "showing off". Whether you decide to solo with the bow or not.

Tru Dat.
Needed to be said.

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

It's obviously just me . Regardless of what jazz styles are bowed, it just makes me think of a couple of chickens scratchin around in the dust .

So far I haven't heard any bowing that speaks like a bari sax, which would be my goal if I wanted to swing with a bow. Not saying it can't be done...just that I haven't heard it.


15 years or so ago, I explored the idea of playing swing solos with the bow for about a week. I became frustrated and quit .

Sweet Jaysus, Mary 'n' @&$@'in' Joseph !!! Wow That's some outstanding and incredible playing, right there. Holy moly; your technique and skills are on a level I can only dream of ever acquiring.

This thread has renewed my interest to start practicing with the bow again. Thanks a lot for these videos, Ed.. and thanks to all the other posters for valuable practice suggestions, videos and insight.. much appreciated

(Slightly O.T.) : 25 yrs ago I played a lot with a Tenor sax player who - for some reason - utterly and wholeheartedly disliked bowed bass solos. He mockingly referred to them as "chainsaw massacres" ... Although I disagree, the analogy is ..well.. 'striking'

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

Man let me hear so more with your band or just jamming!! Great Job!

 

[Sean Riddle]

Just got a copy of John Goldsby's jazz bowing book (bought the pdf from the Aebersold website because of my distaste for Jeff Bezos), and like Damon and others have mentioned this is a great book. I've been warming up with a few of the exercises each day so far and am starting to get into the melodic vocab section bit by bit. One of my goals during this quarantine is to improve my improvisation capabilities, both in straight-ahead jazz and avant-garde settings, so this and learning Slam Stewart's solo on Indiana from the duo with Don Byas has been some great material to start off with so far.

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

As

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

As a Jazz player with the bow today I worked on modal scales in the 3rd octave thumb position. Also bits and pieces of horn plus bass solos.