Double Bass As a jazz player, what do you practise with the bow?

[BobDeRosa]

As a jazz player, why do you need a bow? Nice for intonation work during practice, but I spend my time working on pizzicato sound and time feel since those are what get you gigs.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

As a jazz player, why do you need a bow?

For precisely the reasons I enumerated in Post#10.

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

The reason I like Jazz bass solos Arco.. The #1 Reason Paul Chambers with Miles Davis back in the 1950-60s was my first taste of great Bass Arco work. #2 JOHN Clayton playing Lullaby of Birdland was a big influence..beautiful. #3 Christian McBride playing Wayne Shorters Miyako plus his other 20 great Arco solos. Miroslav Vitous playing Transformation plus 20 other great Arco solos. #4. Classical cats playing Jazz..check Thierry Barbe Plays Misty in his Taipei Recital that is my favorite bowed solo. GARY KARR.....Danny Boy!!......and last Jazz meets Classical....EDGAR MEYER AND CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE playing Stella By Starlight, Solar etc.......And not related but—— I love Edgars bowing on his Edgar Meyer album ...the song is Roundabout.

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

As a jazz player, why do you need a bow? Nice for intonation work during practice, but I spend my time working on pizzicato sound and time feel since those are what get you gigs.

The reason I like Jazz bass solos Arco.. The #1 Reason Paul Chambers with Miles Davis back in the 1950-60s was my first taste of great Bass Arco work. #2 JOHN Clayton playing Lullaby of Birdland was a big influence..beautiful. #3 Christian McBride playing Wayne Shorters Miyako plus his other 20 great Arco solos. Miroslav Vitous playing Transformation plus 20 other great Arco solos. #4. Classical cats playing Jazz..check Thierry Barbe Plays Misty in his Taipei Recital that is my favorite bowed solo. GARY KARR.....Danny Boy!!......and last Jazz meets Classical....EDGAR MEYER AND CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE playing Stella By Starlight, Solar etc.......And not related but—— I love Edgars bowing on his Edgar Meyer album ...the song is Roundabout.

 

[BobDeRosa]

The reason I like Jazz bass solos Arco.. The #1 Reason Paul Chambers with Miles Davis back in the 1950-60s was my first taste of great Bass Arco work. #2 JOHN Clayton playing Lullaby of Birdland was a big influence..beautiful. #3 Christian McBride playing Wayne Shorters Miyako plus his other 20 great Arco solos. Miroslav Vitous playing Transformation plus 20 other great Arco solos. #4. Classical cats playing Jazz..check Thierry Barbe Plays Misty in his Taipei Recital that is my favorite bowed solo. GARY KARR.....Danny Boy!!......and last Jazz meets Classical....EDGAR MEYER AND CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE playing Stella By Starlight, Solar etc.......And not related but—— I love Edgars bowing on his Edgar Meyer album ...the song is Roundabout.

That's all about why you want to bow, not why you need to.

 

[BobDeRosa]

For precisely the reasons I enumerated in Post#10.

Excellent reasons in #10, Ed, and for players of your caliber, consistently refining their technique, right on the money. But your exercises apply to the practice room rather than the performance space. I still contend that the average jazz bassist can get through his or her entire career -- and even put a pretty sharp edge on his or her pizz technique -- without ever touching a bow.

For precisely the reasons I enumerated in Post#10.

And fabulous reasons they are, Ed. Thanks.

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

Regardless Bob you deal with the petty details. I gotta practice.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Excellent reasons in #10, Ed, and for players of your caliber, consistently refining their technique, right on the money. But your exercises apply to the practice room rather than the performance space. I still contend that the average jazz bassist can get through his or her entire career -- and even put a pretty sharp edge on his or her pizz technique -- without ever touching a bow.


And fabulous reasons they are, Ed. Thanks.

Practice room informs the performance space. And isn't "striving to be average" kind of an oxymoron? Look, do what you want. But avoiding poopie just because you can "get by" without it is the very definition of mediocrity.

 

[Sean Riddle]

As a jazz player, why do you need a bow? Nice for intonation work during practice, but I spend my time working on pizzicato sound and time feel since those are what get you gigs.

Not to sound rude, but if all you're doing is straight ahead walking heavy gigs then by all means you may never need to use a bow. If you want to be working a lot, then you're gonna need to be at least decent with the bow. If you get a call for a musical gig where the bow is used and that gig may help you a pay a lot of your bills for that month, you better have your bow chops together. Or you start working with a singer songwriter and they're wondering how to expand the sonic pallet of a song or two. You can whip out the bow and just play some simple long tones. What if a traditional music band asks you join and a couple of songs require a lot of arco? The possibilities are endless. I will also add that I've noticed a lot of the heavy weight jazz players in LA (both old and young) are also highly adept with the bow and even spend some time working in the studios.

For me personally, like @Ed Fuqua mentioned, using the bow has greatly improved my sound and helped me better understand pizza technique. When I started seriously studying the bow in college, my classical teacher told me in my first lesson that arco and pizz are much more similar than I was thinking of them to be. The principal is the same. You're just pulling the string with arm weight and getting the bass to produce a nice full sound. Now I can get a much bigger and fuller sound pizz without over exerting myself. I also feel that when I started to practice heavily with the bow, my bass opened up and sounds much better than it did when I was mainly practicing pizzicato.

 

[Sean Riddle]

Practice room informs the performance space.

I never fully studied with him (played with him a few times) but the first West African music teacher at CalArts Alfred Ladzekpo would always say practice how you would perform.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Not to sound rude, but if all you're doing is straight ahead walking heavy gigs then by all means you may never need to use a bow. If you want to be working a lot, then you're gonna need to be at least decent with the bow. If you get a call for a musical gig where the bow is used and that gig may help you a pay a lot of your bills for that month, you better have your bow chops together. Or you start working with a singer songwriter and they're wondering how to expand the sonic pallet of a song or two. You can whip out the bow and just play some simple long tones. What if a traditional music band asks you join and a couple of songs require a lot of arco? The possibilities are endless. I will also add that I've noticed a lot of the heavy weight jazz players in LA (both old and young) are also highly adept with the bow and even spend some time working in the studios.

For me personally, like @Ed Fuqua mentioned, using the bow has greatly improved my sound and helped me better understand pizza technique. When I started seriously studying the bow in college, my classical teacher told me in my first lesson that arco and pizz are much more similar than I was thinking of them to be. The principal is the same. You're just pulling the string with arm weight and getting the bass to produce a nice full sound. Now I can get a much bigger and fuller sound pizz without over exerting myself. I also feel that when I started to practice heavily with the bow, my bass opened up and sounds much better than it did when I was mainly practicing pizzicato.

Excellent points. Thanks.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Hey Folks --

See this yellow on my face? It's egg. I'm the wiseass who yesterday challenged the notion that jazz bassists ever really need to use a bow.

Wow, did Ed Fuqua and Sean Riddle -- and some others -- set me straight! In their comments above (I apologize for not seeing their early comments before I shot my mouth off), these guys made sensible, compelling arguments about using arco in the practice room to improve not only intonation but time, technique, feel, and more.

So compelling were their arguments, in fact, that I tried some of the recommended exercises during my lunchtime practice session today. Long tones not only to develop good arco form but also for taking inventory of what the rest of your body -- especially your left hand, arm, and shoulder -- is doing while you try to bow the string cleanly and evenly. Eighth notes using both tip and frog ends. And listening to the quality of the arco notes and adjusting as needed. All were rewarding and fun.

The experience was not only satisfying and eye-and-ear-opening, but also meditative. I now intend to add an arco element to add some Zen to all my shedding sessions.

Ed and Sean and others, thank you for being here, and for providing such useful and valuable info for all of us. And a special thank you for teaching this old dog some very cool new tricks.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm glad our commentary was helpful, I think that's all we're aiming for. A lot of what I am advocating in this thread, I learned from bassist Neal Miner. He doesn't perform with a bow, but he practices with it consistently. I think his sound, intonation, and ideas all are very compelling reasons for emulating his practice habits...

 

[BobDeRosa]

I'm glad our commentary was helpful, I think that's all we're aiming for. A lot of what I am advocating in this thread, I learned from bassist Neal Miner. He doesn't perform with a bow, but he practices with it consistently. I think his sound, intonation, and ideas all are very compelling reasons for emulating his practice habits...

I agree. In the videos I've seen, Neal is awesome. Thanks again.

 

[matthewbrown]

Just as a matter of taste, I find URB arco most enjoyable when it is used as a special effect. Marc Johnson does this beautifully, IMHO. I find most jazz arco bass solos put me off, tbh.

 

[sean_on_bass]

With all the practice time on my hands i am starting each session with arco exercises, something i've done on and off for sometime but now really delving into it since i can take my time with it. I see arco practice for the jazz bass player as weight lifting for the left hand. It forces good habits into your left hand that you potentially would not be considering had you not attempted to play arco, because they help to get a good sound when playing that way. Some observations as to what seems to be reinforced:

1. Solid hand shape and finger to string touch points for an ergonomic and sufficient stop
2. Keeping the fingers in contact with the string when shifting for a smooth shift that can be felt by the hand
3. Improved accuracy for intonation due to the enhanced ability to hear the actual pitch

I will say that i am sure that you can learn these things without touching the bow, but the bow has a strong knack for exposing these inadequacies to the player very quickly and building those weaknesses into strengths.

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

This is what I practice with the bow.

And after 30 years of playing I only practice this stuff in the thumb position which is helping me play up top.

1). Slow warmup chromatic scales two octaves.
2) Modal scales thumb position through the 12 keys
3) Jazz heads or melodies prepping for the next gig.
4) I use the BOSS RC300 Loop station so that I can practice the song over and over and over again. I use the iReal Pro to practice any song needed with backing tracks played through the loop station.
5) I think Bassist Lauren Pierce has a great video on intonation playing with drone/metronome etc.
6) Gary Karr has a great video on vomit exercises vibrato works etc...
7) In 1974 I was a student at Berklee College of Music in Boston I studied with Bassist John Neves. Right or Wrong I have always thought of playing Jazz bass bowed solos with a staccato attack just like a pizzicato solos.

Good luck and perseverance wins most of the time!!

 

[Ed Fuqua]

7) In 1974 I was a student at Berklee College of Music in Boston I studied with Bassist John Neves...Good luck and perseverance wins most of the time!!

Sweet, I was there in 81-82 and Neves was my teacher as well. The only time I got to hear him play was with Mal Waldron and Alan Dawson at Ryles...

 

[damonsmith]

5) I think Bassist Lauren Pierce has a great video on intonation playing with drone/metronome etc.

I used to really blow off the drone thing, her playing is so strong that when she said I didn't question it! I've done it as a warm up for a few years now, and like the metronome allows you to place a sound in a specific place in and out of time, I find I have a far better sense of what pitch to play whatever the tuning system is. So, yes drones!

 

[Ben Harris Jzz]

Sweet, I was there in 81-82 and Neves was my teacher as well. The only time I got to hear him play was with Mal Waldron and Alan Dawson at Ryles...

Whoa Nelly!!! It’s a pleasure to meet you and I definitely want to check out your Berklee Stories.. I remember mentioning to JOHN that I wanted to go to New York and he said... (Do it while your young). I did not know how big and awesome he was until I read about him many years later.