• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

ASH vs. ALDER - PART II

VOTE HERE!

  • Clip C matches Clip A

    Votes: 41 43.6%

  • Clip C matches Clip B

    Votes: 51 54.3%

  • Ramble On was recorded with a different bass on each verse

    Votes: 41 43.6%

  • Ramble On was recorded with the same bass on each verse

    Votes: 34 36.2%
  • Total voters
    94
#121
C.Linton said:
The only thing that bothers me about this whole debate, is this attitude of " I hear a HUGE difference, if you don't, then there's something wrong with you and/or your hearing." and it's reverse, "I don't hear a difference at all, if you do, then you must be mental."
I mean, how arrogant is that?
Click to expand...

I agree and that's where this debate gets unnecessarily heated. One side must convince the other of the validity of their position. I have actually had folks argue with me on TB (and tell me that this is a majority opinion by a long shot) that wood is THE defining factor in how your instrument sounds over the pickups, their location, electronics, strings. Apparently there are large groups of TBers that believe that. :confused: If that were true we would buy wood combinations, not jazzes, precisions, stingrays, L2000s.

These comparison threads have shown me that there are real tangible differences in wood. Even more than I thought there would be I suppose. The effects are subtle at best, easily negated by other non-wooden factors, and are not a primary defining factor in tone. Wood creates a subtle timbral variable that may be predictable but isn't always.
 
#123
C.Linton said:
The only thing that bothers me about this whole debate, is this attitude of " I hear a HUGE difference, if you don't, then there's something wrong with you and/or your hearing."
Click to expand...

Like it or not people aren't all the same, some have skills that others don't possess to the same degree.

Can everyone sing? Can everyone play music, or play baseball, or be an artist, or do math, etc.? Being able to discern the tonal nuances of different woods is just another skill someone may have to a greater or lesser degree, or not have at all.

Then there's the question of hearing damage due to loud music, which seems to be a plague nowadays, that can easily impair one's ability to hear in general.

Fortunately I started using ear protection back in the '70s...I got a lot of funny looks back then, and even some these days, but now I'm very glad I did.
 
#126
mongo2 said:
Like it or not people aren't all the same, some have skills that others don't possess to the same degree.

Can everyone sing? Can everyone play music, or play baseball, or be an artist, or do math, etc.? Being able to discern the tonal nuances of different woods is just another skill someone may have to a greater or lesser degree, or not have at all.

Then there's the question of hearing damage due to loud music, which seems to be a plague nowadays, that can easily impair one's ability to hear in general.

Fortunately I started using ear protection back in the '70s...I got a lot of funny looks back then, and even some these days, but now I'm very glad I did.
Click to expand...

Like it or not, the opposite is just as true, that people will hear what they want or expect to hear. Just because someone says they can hear a huge difference, doesn't mean they really can.
My point was, to dismiss someone else who claims either way, whether they do or do not hear a difference as being either mentally or physically, or experientially deficient is arrogant and contributes nothing to the debate.
 
#127
C.Linton said:
Like it or not, the opposite is just as true, that people will hear what they want or expect to hear. Just because someone says they can hear a huge difference, doesn't mean they really can.
My point was, to dismiss someone else who claims either way, whether they do or do not hear a difference as being either mentally or physically, or experientially deficient is arrogant and contributes nothing to the debate.
Click to expand...

What contributions have your rants to express what you think is arrogant made other than to vent your own displeasure?
 
#130
mongo2 said:
Like it or not people aren't all the same, some have skills that others don't possess to the same degree.

Can everyone sing? Can everyone play music, or play baseball, or be an artist, or do math, etc.? Being able to discern the tonal nuances of different woods is just another skill someone may have to a greater or lesser degree, or not have at all.

Then there's the question of hearing damage due to loud music, which seems to be a plague nowadays, that can easily impair one's ability to hear in general.

Fortunately I started using ear protection back in the '70s...I got a lot of funny looks back then, and even some these days, but now I'm very glad I did.
Click to expand...

That's just not the way that our senses work. You can't learn to see better, and you can't learn to hear better. You can learn to listen for specific things, but you are backing yourself into a corner by making the effect of wood so incredibly tiny that only a handful of people with special "skill" can hear it.
 
#132
NineSpine said:
That's just not the way that our senses work. You can't learn to see better, and you can't learn to hear better. You can learn to listen for specific things, but you are backing yourself into a corner by making the effect of wood so incredibly tiny that only a handful of people with special "skill" can hear it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it a special skill but I can hear it clearly, so do others I know but some say they don't. But I think it's definitely something most can learn to some degree similar to learning to pick out instruments in the orchestra in Music Appreciation Class back in Highschool.
 
#136
C.Linton said:
No, that's not it at all. I can appreciate and enjoy differences between people, this world would be a very boring place otherwise. I simply don't like it when people claim superiority over others when someone disagrees with them, that's all.
Click to expand...

No one claimed superiority. They simply use their own experience to illustrate their opinions and arguments. For every skill and subject in the world someone will be better at it or know more about it and someone less than you or I. We might as well get used to it and not be bothered by feelings of inadequacy or inflated by vanity.

I have no trouble accepting others have more sensitive ears or a better ability to identify tonal differences, and I remember when I started playing bass that they all sounded the same to me. Playing and listening closer to the bass in recordings and live revealed more and more subtleties as the years went by. I think is is probably normal, what I mean by ear training in this case, e.g exposure and closer attention to nuance. That diversity of experience and the proven effects of auto suggestion are why double blind tests using large numbers of subjects and multiple many samples, are necessary for questions like these.
 
#137
One Drop said:
No one claimed superiority. They simply use their own experience to illustrate their opinions and arguments. For every skill and subject in the world someone will be better at it or know more about it and someone less than you or I. We might as well get used to it and not be bothered by feelings of inadequacy or inflated by vanity.

I have no trouble accepting others have more sensitive ears or a better ability to identify tonal differences, and I remember when I started playing bass that they all sounded the same to me. Playing and listening closer to the bass in recordings and live revealed more and more subtleties as the years went by. I think is is probably normal, what I mean by ear training in this case, e.g exposure and closer attention to nuance. That diversity of experience and the proven effects of auto suggestion are why double blind tests using large numbers of subjects and multiple many samples, are necessary for questions like these.
Click to expand...

Basically they did claim superiority when they said, "I can hear the difference, if you can't, then there's something wrong with your hearing." (which has been said a couple of times here and in other similar threads) knowing absolutely nothing about the person other than they said they didn't hear a difference. Someone even called someone else's experience into question when they said "I'll bet you haven't been playing bass long." Again making an assumption on another's experience solely on the fact that they disagreed with them. The only inflated egos here are those who assume their skill and experience is greater than those who would disagree with them, without knowing anything at all about that other person's abilities or experience. Certainly some people have trained ears and perhaps can hear such differences, I'll grant you that, but how can you possibly know which is the person with that superior skill and experience, the one who does, or the one who doesn't hear a difference?
It's either - the one who hears a difference is only hearing what he expects, and what he hears is not real,
or - the one who doesn't hear a difference has either bad hearing or lacks experience. Can you tell me which of those is true with absolute certainty?
 
#138
Awesome test. Came in late so I had to resist looking at the answers before taking a guess.

I was actually surprised at how pronounced the differences were between clips A and B. clip A had all the cliches used to describe ash: growly and scooped. B was overall mellower.

That didn't help for the Rumble On clip, though. I could tell they were different basses right away, but was wrong on which was what. I thought the first verse had a cleaner attack and had to be Ash.
Strike one! oh well :D

EDIT:
Dan, could you tell us how the two bodies differ in weight? I would love to know how that was affecting the clips as well. :)
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back