Astrophotography thread

[hbarcat]

Back when all cameras used film, I was into astrophotography for awhile before it got too expensive and I lost interest.

But now things are different. I have two smaller telescopes that are portable and easy to use, and digital cameras that are dedicated to astrophotography have become cheap and plentiful.

Moreover, there is some amazing software available now that is almost miraculous in its ability to overcome most of the atmospheric distortions and other limitations of small, ground based telescopes, allowing casual, backyard astronomers the ability to achieve some stunningly beautiful images that rival the best pictures taken with the largest observatories from past decades.

To get started, I just borrowed an entry level (ie. cheap) digital astro camera from my brother and I intend to start practicing with it this summer.

It's a Svbony SV105 camera that cost $45. As expected from it's low price, it has its limitations, mostly that it's only useful for the brightest objects, like the moon and planets, plus a handful of the brightest star clusters. It's virtually useless for deep sky objects like nebulae or galaxies.

My two scopes are a Celestron C5 (5" Catadioptric) and an Orion Starblast 4.5 (4½" tabletop Dobsonian), both on alt-az mounts.

Either of these scopes should be within the budget of nearly every casual hobbyist. I have less than $600 into the C5, including high quality eyepieces and some useful accessories, and the Orion scope costs significantly less than that.

I have a Linux Mint laptop to use for taking images with the SV105 camera, using Astro DMX capture.

The software I'll be using to stack images is Autostakkert 4. It's free, open source, and is widely used with a large support community. I'll be using GIMP (Linux) for image processing.

I haven't started yet, but I expect to start trying to take some basic images in the next few weeks, while Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are still visible in the early evening and Venus is still in its crescent phase.

Until then, I hope that there will be other TB members who are into astrophotography and would be generous enough to share their experiences and results with us.

 

[dwm74]

I've always been a visual observer only, but some of these new devices have me pondering whether or not to enter the AP world. I still would rather 'see' a faint fuzzy rather than look at a picture of it, but it is intriguing with the technology available today. It's the post-production aspect that keeps me from diving in.

Looking forward to seeing the results of your endeavors. Invalid Link Removed

 

[hbarcat]

I still would rather 'see' a faint fuzzy rather than look at a picture of it, but it is intriguing with the technology available today.

One motivation for me to borrow this digital astro camera is to be able to display what my telescope is seeing on a laptop in real time so that I could show it to my grandkids and to others who might want to see.

One of the biggest impediments to sharing night sky objects with non hobbyists is the awkwardness of getting each person to get a good look through the eyepiece. You have to instruct everyone where to look through the eyepiece (in the dark), how to use just one eye, and how to refocus the image if they remove their glasses. Also, with an unguided scope, you'll need to stop to manually recenter the image about every 10 - 20 seconds.

With a digital camera, everybody can see the object displayed on the laptop or tablet at the same time with no awkwardness of having to find and squint through the eyepiece in a rushed manner, one at a time.

 

[dwm74]

I'd considered one of those light-amplifying, image intensifier eyepieces for visual astronomy, until I saw the price tag...$3500 & up.

 

[hbarcat]

I've been looking through telescopes since I got a 60mm refractor for my 6th birthday. When I lived in a rural area with very dark skies in the 90s I had several scopes, including a 10" Dobsonian.

Then I moved back to the city in '98 and sold everything.

A few years ago I moved again to where the skies are a bit darker and picked up a couple of smaller scopes.

It was quite a shock seeing how badly my eyes have deteriorated with age. Many of the fainter galaxies and nebulae that I used to be able to see without difficulty are invisible to me now. Stars are no longer pinpoints, but have distortion lines at their edges.

Boo!

 

[dwm74]

It was quite a shock seeing how badly my eyes have deteriorated with age. Many of the fainter galaxies and nebulae that I used to be able to see without difficulty are invisible to me now. Stars are no longer pinpoints, but have distortion lines at their edges.

No kidding! I've also ran the gamut from 60mm refractors up to a 15" truss dob, and most everything in between. My current inventory is a C8, Orion 90 Mak, and about two years ago bought a 4" refractor. When I got the refractor, it is a much higher quality than any frac I'd had before, so I was expecting amazingly pinpoint stars, sharp contrast on planets, etc. Instead I got football-shaped stars, and nothing else was very impressive, either. Sent that one back, received a replacement, which was noticeably better, but still not perfect.

After much researching, I did some field tests with different eyepieces, with and without the diagonal, thinking it must be somewhere in the optical train. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the main culprit in this were my own eyes, in which I have apparently developed astigmatism to some degree. Not terrible, but noticeable. They sell diopters to correct this to a degree, but I'll learn to live with it.

 

[hbarcat]

No kidding! I've also ran the gamut from 60mm refractors up to a 15" truss dob, and most everything in between. My current inventory is a C8, Orion 90 Mak, and about two years ago bought a 4" refractor. When I got the refractor, it is a much higher quality than any frac I'd had before, so I was expecting amazingly pinpoint stars, sharp contrast on planets, etc. Instead I got football-shaped stars, and nothing else was very impressive, either. Sent that one back, received a replacement, which was noticeably better, but still not perfect.

After much researching, I did some field tests with different eyepieces, with and without the diagonal, thinking it must be somewhere in the optical train. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the main culprit in this were my own eyes, in which I have apparently developed astigmatism to some degree. Not terrible, but noticeable. They sell diopters to correct this to a degree, but I'll learn to live with it.

Many years ago, I read an article that explained how to troubleshoot problems with your telescope optics if you're experiencing off center optical distortions in an otherwise collimated Newtonian scope.

1) Rotate the eyepiece. If the distortion also rotates, then the fault is within the eyepiece. If not, then:

2) Rotate the primary mirror. If the distortion rotates with it, then the fault lies with the mirror. It's most likely being pinched by the mirror cell. If not, then:

3) Rotate your head. If the distortion rotates with it, then cry, because your eyes are ******.

 

[dwm74]

3) Rotate your head. If the distortion rotates with it, then cry, because your eyes are ******.

Ha Ha! Number 3 is exactly what sealed the deal for me!

 

[mrpackerguy]

I just got a used Seestar 50 so when we get some clear skies I will post a few pics

 

[dmt]

One motivation for me to borrow this digital astro camera is to be able to display what my telescope is seeing on a laptop in real time so that I could show it to my grandkids and to others who might want to see.

One of the biggest impediments to sharing night sky objects with non hobbyists is the awkwardness of getting each person to get a good look through the eyepiece. You have to instruct everyone where to look through the eyepiece (in the dark), how to use just one eye, and how to refocus the image if they remove their glasses. Also, with an unguided scope, you'll need to stop to manually recenter the image about every 10 - 20 seconds.

With a digital camera, everybody can see the object displayed on the laptop or tablet at the same time with no awkwardness of having to find and squint through the eyepiece in a rushed manner, one at a time.

Sounds like you might want to look into something called EAA (Electronicallly Assisted Astronomy), where an image builds up on a screen in real time. It’s simpler than astrophotography and closer to observing. It is often used for how you describe, for sharing a view with a group, perhaps especially of faint objects like galaxies that might, to the uninitiated, be unimpressive through the eyepiece. Further to that, as mrpackerguy mentioned above, there is a pretty new category called "smart telescope" for EAA where an integrated telescope and computer do most of the work for you. And then if you want to, you can process the resulting smart telescope images later for an "astrophotography-lite" approach. The Seestar is the most popular of the new smart telescopes.

On the other hand, you already have a telescope, mount and camera to mess with plus your own idea on how to proceed, so have fun however you go with it. Best of luck and success ahead

 

[hbarcat]

Sounds like you might want to look into something called EAA (Electronicallly Assisted Astronomy), where an image builds up on a screen in real time. It’s simpler than astrophotography and closer to observing. It is often used for how you describe, for sharing a view with a group, perhaps especially of faint objects like galaxies that might, to the uninitiated, be unimpressive through the eyepiece. Further to that, as mrpackerguy mentioned above, there is a pretty new category called "smart telescope" for EAA where an integrated telescope and computer do most of the work for you. And then if you want to, you can process the resulting smart telescope images later for an "astrophotography-lite" approach. The Seestar is the most popular of the new smart telescopes.

On the other hand, you already have a telescope, mount and camera to mess with plus your own idea on how to proceed, so have fun however you go with it. Best of luck and success ahead

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know about it and had to look it up. It looks like something I might be interested in doing.

 

[hbarcat]

Personal anecdote:

One of my friends recently told me that there is a newer top of the line Celestron C-11 with all the luxury upgrades sitting unused in a storage room at his local library.

When he asked about it, they informed him that some wealthy guy bought it on a whim during the pandemic and then quickly got bored with it so he donated it to the library.

Unfortunately, nobody knows how to use it, plus it's big and heavy abd very difficult to use unless you spend a whole lot of time practicing with it.

My friend is going to nake them an offer to see if he can get it from them and use it himself. He's been an amateur astronomer for a long time but he's never had a scope bigger than a 4½ Newtonian.

The nighttime skies where he lives (Wisconsin Northwoods) are very very dark. A big, advanced scope like this C-11 would be amazing to use.

I suggested that if the library turns down his offer, he should see if he can organize a local amateur astronomy group and make attangements to use the scope on a regular basis with others who might be interested.

This is the scope: Its has both alt-azimuth mount and the equatorial wedge (not pictured) for astrophotography

 

[dmt]

Personal anecdote:

One of my friends recently told me that there is a newer top of the line Celestron C-11 with all the luxury upgrades sitting unused in a storage room at his local library.

When he asked about it, they informed him that some wealthy guy bought it on a whim during the pandemic and then quickly got bored with it so he donated it to the library.

Unfortunately, nobody knows how to use it, plus it's big and heavy abd very difficult to use unless you spend a whole lot of time practicing with it.

My friend is going to nake them an offer to see if he can get it from them and use it himself. He's been an amateur astronomer for a long time but he's never had a scope bigger than a 4½ Newtonian.

The nighttime skies where he lives (Wisconsin Northwoods) are very very dark. A big, advanced scope like this C-11 would be amazing to use.

I suggested that if the library turns down his offer, he should see if he can organize a local amateur astronomy group and make attangements to use the scope on a regular basis with others who might be interested.

This is the scope: Its has both alt-azimuth mount and the equatorial wedge (not pictured) for astrophotography

A C11 + mount/tripod would definitely be a handful.

Your friend might consider instead picking up a used 10" Dobsonian ("Dob") for a few hundreds of dollars (they can be had brand new for just under a thousand). Smaller central obstruction, less issues with dew, wider field of view, simpler to set up, simpler to operate… but, it depends on what kind of experience one wants. Also on one’s goals. For example, the best amateur planetary astro images I’ve seen have typically been from 11" SCTs, so if one’s goal is absolutely top notch planetary photography, a C11 would make a lot of sense (though it might perhaps be better as a step up, after first learning planetary astrophotography on something more easily manageable like say an 8" SCT, but some people will dive right into the deep end, and so be it). For just communing with the night sky though, an 11" SCT would be pretty much my last choice. However, as with basses, opinions on such things do vary widely. Also, I could see the pull to not be letting a known capable telescope "just go to waste". Personally, I’d be more interested in running an outreach program with it from the library grounds (in conjunction with the library, on a volunteer basis) than I would be in taking it home and having to own it myself. But anyway, I’m just discussing, not telling anyone what to do. Hopefully your friend can help that scope get used or otherwise reach his own astronomy goals.

I should say before commenting on astronomy stuff further that I’m not an imager — I’m purely visual, and my approach in general is "the simpler, the better"

 

[Winslow]

My 5" Celestron and its thick-legged tripod make for enough of a hogbeast that I only haul it out on special occasions. Something as huge as that 11" is the kind of thing for which I'd start considering setting up a backyard observatory, so it could remain in place. There are some pretty clever DIY options, from the Invalid Link Removed to the more advanced (an amazing project), or click-to-buy, pop-up pre-fab units, just for an example. There's even a mom & pop outfit that would do custom builds of "roll-off roof" observatory sheds. (One of the owners recently had a stroke though, so they're limited to selling plans and equipment for the time being.) The Cloudy Nights forum has a whole section dedicated to Invalid Link Removed which is great "when I hit the lottery" fodder.

Anyway, putting those ideas together with @dmt's suggestion about an outreach at the library, if there's enough room on their property, it could be a great contribution (or maybe someone's Eagle Scout project) to build something like that there. I would think (okay, hope) it would be a good opportunity to draw people to the library, and boost some appreciation for science education.

 

[hbarcat]

@dmt and @Winslow
Your suggestions are spot on for the typical person just getting into the hobby. A C-11 is a monster telescope and is really too much to handle for all but the most dedicated amateur astronomer.

But my friend is an outlier. First of all, he got into into astronomy from me as we've been friends since high school. He learned about deep sky observing by using my 10" Dobsonian and he's since owned several scopes of his own.

But lately he's been thinking about getting a more serious scope (something like a C-8) for astrophotography. He recently finished building his house (by himself), which sits on 40 acres of land under the dark night skies of the Northwoods. When he discovered this C-11 sitting unused, he not only wanted to rescue it from neglect, but he saw the potential of being able to build an observatory for it on his property.

jf it were any other human, I'd be advising him to stay away from it, but this is a guy whom I have zero doubt knows what hes getting into and is fully capable of making the most of it.

Still, if he's unable to buy it outright, he's planning on working with the library and with other locals to make sure that it gets used somewhat regularly.

I estimate there's about $8,000 worth of nearly brand new, state of the art, telescope just collecting dust in a storage closet.

 

[Winslow]

There you go then. Hope he makes the most of it, in any capacity.

 

[dmt]

@dmt and @Winslow

….He recently finished building his house (by himself), which sits on 40 acres of land under the dark night skies of the Northwoods. When he discovered this C-11 sitting unused, he not only wanted to rescue it from neglect, but he saw the potential of being able to build an observatory for it on his property…

Very nice indeed.

And he sounds like a very capable fellow. An observatory would be a good way to go with it

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

Been into astronomy for over 40 years. I used to do EAA and AP. Now I'm just a casual visual observer. I suggest checking out Invalid Link Removed. Everything you could ever want to learn is right there for and thousands of professional and amateur astronomers are available to help.

Lots of options for both now with newer "all-in-one" scopes that can do it. But sometimes it's more fun to build your own rig (just like bass rigs, right?)...

A few I've owned over the years...

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

Personal anecdote:

One of my friends recently told me that there is a newer top of the line Celestron C-11 with all the luxury upgrades sitting unused in a storage room at his local library.

When he asked about it, they informed him that some wealthy guy bought it on a whim during the pandemic and then quickly got bored with it so he donated it to the library.

Unfortunately, nobody knows how to use it, plus it's big and heavy abd very difficult to use unless you spend a whole lot of time practicing with it.

My friend is going to nake them an offer to see if he can get it from them and use it himself. He's been an amateur astronomer for a long time but he's never had a scope bigger than a 4½ Newtonian.

The nighttime skies where he lives (Wisconsin Northwoods) are very very dark. A big, advanced scope like this C-11 would be amazing to use.

I suggested that if the library turns down his offer, he should see if he can organize a local amateur astronomy group and make attangements to use the scope on a regular basis with others who might be interested.

This is the scope: Its has both alt-azimuth mount and the equatorial wedge (not pictured) for astrophotography

A C11 is certainly a great, large scope, but it's not ideal for AP or EAA, but is fabulous for planetary and lunar photography!!! That is some serious aperture!

 

[hbarcat]

A C11 is certainly a great, large scope, but it's not ideal for AP or EAA, but is fabulous for planetary and lunar photography!!! That is some serious aperture!

Something I've learned along the way is that the total focal length (tfl) of the scope makes a difference in what it's good for viewing or imaging.

Warning: some techno jargon ahead.

Suppose you have two different scopes. One is a 10" Newtonian at f/5 (1250 mm tfl) and the other is an 11" SCT at f/10 (2800 mm tfl)

The shorter 1250 mm scope will be much better suited to wide field objects like nebulae, galaxies, and open star clusters, while the 2800 mm scope will be better suited to compact objects like the planets, double stars, and globular clusters.

For direct viewing, the choice of eyepiece can offset the differences. A longer focal length eyepiece provides a wider field of view, while a shorter focal length provides a narrower field of view.

When doing astrophotography, the eyepiece is typically bypassed, with the digital camera taking its place. However, you can alter the effective focal length (efl) of the scope by using a "barlow" lens, which either reduces or extends the scope's baseline focal length. They're rated in multiples (2x, 2½x, 3x, -2x, -2½x, -3x, etc..)