After training with the bow I have been way happier with my live sound, very useable, and the left side of the blend knob is brilliant for getting some punch back in. Great unit.
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Double Bass Audio Sprockets ToneDexter
- Thread starter jarrodtravis
- Start date
Very interested in the TD, but have just received Gollihur’s newsletter which says that the bass firmware preload is available only on purchases from them. Is this true? If so might make things difficult for UK buyers who I’m sure are ready to embrace this great piece of kit.
I'm also in the UK and interested in the TD.
From what I have read updating the software is just a matter of downloading it and storing it on the SD card. If you do get a TD and are having difficulty I am happy to help.
If you buy the TD without the bass firmware you can easily download it from Audosprocket's website and install it yourself.
I am very interested in this device! I have a David Gage Realist LifeLine pickup on my acoustic upright bass and I have a good quality condenser microphone (a RØDE NT1) that I can use for training. My question is: what results can I expect from training the ToneDexter on my acoustic upright, then using that program on my NS Designs NXTa electric upright? For practical reasons (feedback, transportation, room on stage) I usually prefer to use the electric upright when performing. I am much more likely to consider a $400 investment if I can use it in more situations.
James May
Commercial User
- Sep 14, 2017
- 67
- 90
- Disclosures
- Principal of Audio Sprockets, maker of ToneDexter
The success of transplanting a WaveMap made on a resonant instrument to a stick of wood instrument depends on if the pickups are similar enough. From your specifics, I would think that you'd get something quite usable with this approach.
Ok So I have another insight to offer here: I took for granted that it would sound better to train the TD arco to maximize the sound waves coming in...but I was thinking about it and since this device IS so sensitive to mics and placement, why would the eq curve or IR or wavemap be better made for pizz played arco? So I freed up two Wavemaps (really really wish I could save the wavemaps to my computer....) and used the same mic and placement and made one arco and one pizz....the arco one has more openness but also more artifacts that sound unnatural (when I play pizz) the Pizz one sounds just right Pizz: Mellow, round, not too trebly no artifacts, nice thump.
I am going to make more pizz now.
I am going to make more pizz now.
I thought I had read that you could, maybe I am mistaken (but don't have the enthusiasm to re-read 16 pages to find out).
Is there any advice how to get a better dynamic range? As long as I´m playing in a low volume surrounding I feel very fine with the tonedexter, but when want to play louder I am missing some kind of cut through. The sound will remain full and round instead of being more focused, and it kind of feels like playing with too much compression. Know what I mean? I wonder if CH0 cuts the dynamic range compared to CH2 (full mic sound)? Since I am blending with pickup, that might be a reason. Or might it be a good idea to use less gain on the pickup input during training, but increase it a bit when playing to achive a greater range? Or should a play with a greater dynamic range when training? Maybe there is some advice, thank you guys!
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I "trained the ToneDexter" with my NS by fooling the ToneDexter. Run your NS in the ToneDexter and mic your upright bass to the ToneDexter. Have another skilled artist play the exact same notes as you. This takes some precise practice and teamwork, but the results are outstanding
I don't know how the training process works, but this sounds crazy on its face! Some audio clips would be very helpful. If this is true, it should be possible to mic my upright and play the same note on my Fender Precision and get something useful. Which I would very much like to hear!
James May
Commercial User
- Sep 14, 2017
- 67
- 90
- Disclosures
- Principal of Audio Sprockets, maker of ToneDexter
The WaveMap training process requires both the pickup and mic inputs to be highly correlated. This means that one needs to be caused by the other. We're at a loss to explain how what you describe could yield anything usable.
I swore I wasn't even going to try this because I keep trying to reduce the amount of gear I bring with me anywhere, but I love the way my pickup sounds thru the Grace felix first, and I figured if I am drawing on some facsimile of a good mic sound THAT should sound way better thru the Felix too and since I am not totally convinced of the blending on the TD by itself (however convenient) I figured out a way to route my pickup into the Felix and then out to the TD and then just taking the most mic sound and running that back into the mic channel of the felix and then blending it there with the pickup and DI out to the amp. Sounds like too much trouble to me, but man does it sound as good as I thought it would. I can see doing that for a live recording or a trio concert, but with the two lined up it is a foot of knobs. More knobs then there are chords.
That sounds crazy. I'm sure it sounds crazy good, but what a nightmare to deal with at the beginning and end of a gig! I guess I'm still not understanding what could be wrong with the blend feature on the TD that would make this seem to be an option worth considering? I was under the impression that the internal blend feature got fixed in a firmware update at the end of March.
Well the Yamahiko sounds best when it is preamped with 20Mohms. 10 is good (maybe better but somehow different 10Mhom imputs sound different)
When I blend my pickup and the TD in the Felix or straight into the AI focus, and use one of them as the blender, I get the fat pickup sound and the full on TD mic sound. When I use the TD as the blender, it just does not have the same major mojo. It is better then it was (the weird phasing that thinned out the blend) but there is still something going on that makes it so that practically I use the TD in the FX return of the Focus. Why does it sound better that way? I dont know but when I use it that way my pickup seems loaded and eq'd right for it's sound and then when it comes back from the TD it blends in a really fat way.
WHen I get some time I want to take this stuff up to James's studio so he can hear what I'm talking about.
Those cats James and Andy are so responsive and interested in getting it going on that I am sure they will figure it out.
Maybe I should just be happy with the TD making the mic sound and letting the Focus do the mixing, because it sounds great that way.
When I blend my pickup and the TD in the Felix or straight into the AI focus, and use one of them as the blender, I get the fat pickup sound and the full on TD mic sound. When I use the TD as the blender, it just does not have the same major mojo. It is better then it was (the weird phasing that thinned out the blend) but there is still something going on that makes it so that practically I use the TD in the FX return of the Focus. Why does it sound better that way? I dont know but when I use it that way my pickup seems loaded and eq'd right for it's sound and then when it comes back from the TD it blends in a really fat way.
WHen I get some time I want to take this stuff up to James's studio so he can hear what I'm talking about.
Those cats James and Andy are so responsive and interested in getting it going on that I am sure they will figure it out.
Maybe I should just be happy with the TD making the mic sound and letting the Focus do the mixing, because it sounds great that way.
If it is just the input impedance, you can either built a FDeck Quick'n'dirty impedance buffer with a 22 MegOhms input resistor (signal to ground) instead of the recommended 10 MegOhms, let Francis build you a 20 (two 10megOhms in series) or 22 MegOhms (single resistor) HPFpre or ask Francis to modify one (just cutting one wire and soldering a 10 MegOhms resistor in between) if you already have one.
You can even shorten the additional resistor to get back to 10 MegOhms.
I think it would be nice to have a jumper and a few resistors in series that could be shortened by the jumper to select different input impedances. Potentiometers could easily oxidize over time and then you have an unpleasant situation if the contact comes and goes with vibration.
I know it would be more parts to solder in (the cost of the parts itself is rather low), so more work if Francis would take that for a later modification (I'm sure he needs to sell his current PCBs first before thinking of a new PCB design).
Maybe Francis doesn't want the user to open the box to reconfigure the input impedance, so he might not want to modify for that reason anyway.
Using a Grace Felix only for better input impedance is overkill.
You can even shorten the additional resistor to get back to 10 MegOhms.
I think it would be nice to have a jumper and a few resistors in series that could be shortened by the jumper to select different input impedances. Potentiometers could easily oxidize over time and then you have an unpleasant situation if the contact comes and goes with vibration.
I know it would be more parts to solder in (the cost of the parts itself is rather low), so more work if Francis would take that for a later modification (I'm sure he needs to sell his current PCBs first before thinking of a new PCB design).
Maybe Francis doesn't want the user to open the box to reconfigure the input impedance, so he might not want to modify for that reason anyway.
Using a Grace Felix only for better input impedance is overkill.
Yeah it is not the Impedance. There is something else in the processng I have ways of making the pickup 10Mohm into the TD like you suggested... Right now I like the sound of my pickup going into the amp first and then into the TD. I like the sound of the TD in its most mic like state coming back out and blending with the pickup that has been preamped in the amp (or Felix) what it is exactly I dont know. It might just be this pickup, I was pretty stoked with the Stat B into the TD (but the Stat has its own problems and box) . But using the TD into the FX send and return of the Focus works great. THe TD into the Mic channel of the Felix made the mic sound of the TD sound really warm and clear though....
Reading the latest in this thread got me thinking if my hpf+ at 10M ohm would be an improvement over the TD’s 1M ohm input. So I did a little test with and without my hpf+ and I found I preferred the hpf+ right after the pickup to straight into the TD. It sounded a little fuller. I will take it to the gigs I have tomorrow and see if makes much of a difference in a band setting.
