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Double Bass Audio Sprockets ToneDexter

#521
flatback said:
No ma I didnt mean nuthin by that...I just meant that it should be experience driven and sound driven rather then methodical. YOu will see that somethings work really well and instead of covering ALL the bases just moving in the direction of your intuition will be good..Also getting it on the gig is what matters. The WM's will sound different in different rooms. I highly recommend getting a bow even if you are sawing at it. I have fooled around with all kinds of WMs and I think that the what the mic cares about in training is the breadth of the signal, the maximization of the width of it....
Also what are you running it thru? That will make a huge difference. Anyway sorry for the Freudian sh it (pun intended) I think you will dig it though. Seems to me that Guts or Animas (with that big roundwound sound) will come thru great with this little red box.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll definitely do some arco in the training. I'll be running things straight to a QSC K10 on gigs and a GK MB150 at jams and rehearsals. I plan on picking up one of those AI upshots at some point, after hearing one from the audience over a loud big band and getting a positive review from the bassist.
 
#523
SteDal said:
Hi guys!

First post here, after having lurked around for some time.

I've read about the ToneDexter... To me, it looked like a very sensible solution to our perennial 'live acoustic sound problem', so, after reading lots of favourable comments, I made up my mind and bought one.

It arrived yesterday, so I haven't had the chance of trying it on stage yet, but today I stored my first wavemaps, so I thought about sharing my experience.

First of all, I must say that I'm impressed. I'm very confident that my live sound will get much better, thanks to this little red box. And I imagine that with a little trial and error my wavemaps (already quite good, IMHO) are bound to get better, as well. I can hear a great improvement as far as my arco sound, which is very important to me, since I'm playing many bow parts in my 'crossover' projects.

I made my first experiments using 3 different microphones:
1 - Ear Trumpet Lab Nadine (between the bridge and the tailpiece, as usual);
2 - Oktava MK-012, about one foot away facing the lower end of the fingerboard;
3 - RM-6 ribbon microphone (made in Latvia, sold as a DIY kit, with an excellent quality/price ratio).
I'm using a Link Removed pick-up.

Here you'll find some audio files that I hope will give you an idea about my results. I've sent the same original straight pick-up recording to the ToneDexter using 3 different wavemaps. so it's actually the very same passage treated differently by the 3 WMs.
In these first 4 examples (original file and the 3 mics) I'm playing only pizzicato.

Shortly I'm going to upload an arco example as well.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

WOW. What an improvement over the PU by itself. I like the ETL Nadine BEST, by far, the other two sounded a bit hollow and echoey - not the Nadine.

Great playing and great clips. Thank you!
 
#524
flatback said:
No ma I didnt mean nuthin by that...I just meant that it should be experience driven and sound driven rather then methodical. YOu will see that somethings work really well and instead of covering ALL the bases just moving in the direction of your intuition will be good..Also getting it on the gig is what matters. The WM's will sound different in different rooms. I highly recommend getting a bow even if you are sawing at it. I have fooled around with all kinds of WMs and I think that the what the mic cares about in training is the breadth of the signal, the maximization of the width of it....
Also what are you running it thru? That will make a huge difference. Anyway sorry for the Freudian sh it (pun intended) I think you will dig it though. Seems to me that Guts or Animas (with that big roundwound sound) will come thru great with this little red box.
Click to expand...
+ 1 to all of this! It’s easy to go down the rabbit hole with creating multiple wave maps with different mics and placements. Also, things will sound different within the mix of a band; what sounds great at home soloed may not work on the gig with other instruments. FWIW, I end up pretty much choosing between 2 wave maps for a variety of gig situations and varying the amount of pick-up to mix in. The eq on the TD and the amp usually stays flat.
 
#525
Since I haven’t used a Piezo pickup
in quite sometime, I don’t feel the need to move to a Tone Dexter immidately. The Ischell, Ehrlund, and Remic et al. into a high quality preamp sounds very close to sound my Double Bass creates on it own. If I we’re using a Yamahiko or Realist I’d
be trying it today. I’m glad it’s been such god send for others.
 
#527
Allan Johnston said:
Thanks. I'll definitely do some arco in the training. I'll be running things straight to a QSC K10 on gigs and a GK MB150 at jams and rehearsals. I plan on picking up one of those AI upshots at some point, after hearing one from the audience over a loud big band and getting a positive review from the bassist.
Click to expand...

Hey Al! I look forward to hearing how the TD works out for you. BTW who was the bassist with the upshot that you heard? Cheers! Brent.
 
#529
I use a Fishman Classic Series BP-100 Upright Bass Pickup with a Samson C03 Multi-Pattern Condenser Microphone, like the way both blend to give low and high end sound but setting the mic up is a bit painful and also keeping it at the right distance when playing live is another issue. Would the ToneDexter be able to match the sonic nature of the mic?
 
#530
So, I’ve owned one of these before and became frustrated with the time spent in wavemaps. The concept is amazing to me however. I think James’ business model is amazing.

With the new software updates, and the high pass filter and am interested in pulling the trigger on another...yes. Buyers remorse.

However I want to keep my live rig simple. Would the TD/QSCk10/Full Circle be a possible? I play arco and pizz.

AKG 451, Shure KSM 27 and 32, Rode NTK, SM57 are my mics. Which would be best for this application?
 
#532
Hey guys just a thought/question:

How would this thing work with a magnetic (such as a krivo) as the pickup source? In terms of feedback resistance it should be great. And I would imagine the detail and depth of a mic sounding great with the solidity and pitch clarity of a magnetic.

Thoughts/experiences?
 
#533
Brad_Pearson said:
Hey guys just a thought/question:

How would this thing work with a magnetic (such as a krivo) as the pickup source? In terms of feedback resistance it should be great. And I would imagine the detail and depth of a mic sounding great with the solidity and pitch clarity of a magnetic.

Thoughts/experiences?
Click to expand...
According to Audiosprockets (the maker of Tonedexter) it doesn’t work with magnetic pick-ups.
 
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#534
I’m wondering if anyone with one of the newer units has tried the two impedance settings with a Full Circle.

Mine is one of the older ones and I’m guessing I could get it modded, if it made a huge difference in the sound.

I’m really liking it, but I’m always wondering... if the impedance on the in would allow the training algorithm a better chance at correcting the piezo response, I’d be pretty happy to hear. I felt like the 5MOhm setting on my old Headway was the best of both worlds on the FC/my bass. It seemed to get too mushy at 20MOhm.
 
#535
try bypassing the TD by pressing the mute button for an extra sec. then listen. does the pickup sound thinner then when you plug it into your 5 or 10 ohm amp or preamp? For me 10mohm is just right on that box for the Yamahiko.
 
#536
It does sound thinner for sure. But the training makes the WM using that thinner sound, and it kinda comes out in the wash to some degree, doesn’t it?

I could also see the benefits with a higher impedance if your blending down as well. I use a very strong WM to direct blend or use straight CH0.

But to clarify, your saying your experience is that with the Yamahiko (at 10MOhm) has been better overall WMs after training? Maybe it’s not having to ‘fix’ the signal quite as much and feels more natural and real?
 
#537
well the pickup is a big part of the signal, even after the WP is applied (to my ears) so what goes in comes out. I like to have the pickup sounding its best, especially if I am gong to do any blending of it back in with the mic.
 
#538
OK, I've had my TD since Tuesday, and have done a lot of experiments, but I won't bore you with all the details. The KM184 I rented sounded pretty good, but the Troll ribbon mic gave me some nice, warm tones to work with right up the fingerboard, especially recorded about 12" from the f-hole (angled to the bridge foot,) and 12" in front of the bridge. These wave maps can be tweaked to sound good on all my amps I've tested. The high pass filter works great for cutting any bass boom. All my wave maps sound best recorded from track 22, BTW.

I've run the Troll-recorded wave map and the Troll itself (under the bridge) side-by-side straight into the QSC, and they sound pretty darn close. In fact, I think I'll run both like this live when I can - mixing in just a pinch of "real" mic to even out the map - fill in the uncharted territories, so to speak. But that will only be in playing situations where it's possible to hear the difference - which isn't most of them. The TD sounds great alone, cranked, when I'm standing beside a loud drummer. It sounds like my mic on my bass, at volumes a mic can't do.

I'd still like to try a few other mics, eventually. Maybe if some of my local bass brethren buy one of these things (Hi Brent and Brad!) we can have a Mic Fest... ;-)

Al
 
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#540
Allan Johnston said:
OK, I've had my TD since Tuesday, and have done a lot of experiments, but I won't bore you with all the details. The KM184 I rented sounded pretty good, but the Troll ribbon mic gave me some nice, warm tones to work with right up the fingerboard, especially recorded about 12" from the f-hole (angled to the bridge foot,) and 12" in front of the bridge. These wave maps can be tweaked to sound good on all my amps I've tested. The high pass filter works great for cutting any bass boom. All my wave maps sound best recorded from track 22, BTW.

I've run the Troll-recorded wave map and the Troll itself (under the bridge) side-by-side straight into the QSC, and they sound pretty darn close. In fact, I think I'll run both like this live when I can - mixing in just a pinch of "real" mic to even out the map - fill in the uncharted territories, so to speak. But that will only be in playing situations where it's possible to hear the difference - which isn't most of them. The TD sounds great alone, cranked, when I'm standing beside a loud drummer. It sounds like my mic on my bass, at volumes a mic can't do.

I'd still like to try a few other mics, eventually. Maybe if some of my local bass brethren buy one of these things (Hi Brent and Brad!) we can have a Mic Fest... ;-)

Al
Click to expand...


Just placed an order for one Al :) Since I get my rentals for half price from work, Im going to try out a bunch that I haven't seen mentioned here yet (I think). Thinking: U87, TLM103, Aston Spirit, N22 Plus anything interesting we happen to have lying around/available in the lower mainland.
 
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