AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

[Derek Kiernan]

koobie - That's a good question. I don't think the rear firing tweeter would cause much of a problem, but maybe I'm mistaken I'd describe the back of the cabinet as being more like what you get with an open back cabinet on guitar without the dramatic high end rolloff. It's considerably lower volume than the front and helps to fill out the space a bit behind the cabinet, helping keep the tonality through the room, but it's certainly not a bipole design.

I think the more important difference with the ThunderChild (in relation to feedback) is the elimination of the upper-mid hole between the woofer and the tweeter other cabinets would have. There's a smoother transition somewhere 1.6 kHz and 3.5 or 4 kHz, where tweeters are more commonly crossed over. As to whether this would make feedback more difficult to avoid, maybe IntrepidCellist has some insight? I don't know if he uses piezo or a mic.


In terms of the speaker acting more like an acoustic instrument - I had my friend play in a room on the 2nd floor of his house while I walked down the hall into other rooms or down the stairs and slowly paced around. It definitely sounds similar to an acoustic instrument to me! I grew up playing cello in orchestras, so I'm pretty familiar with how acoustic instruments change tone as you move around in environments, and this cab seemed to do that really well. I also listened to some classical recordings and gamelan as I moved around the house, and I could still hear the high end detail I love in those recordings.

 

[thudfromafar]

Didn't duke say he was moving the crossover point for the acoustic cab? It's lower than the standard TC right?

 

[Derek Kiernan]

I don't think he has. He was initially planning on it, as well as using a considerably more expensive compression driver, but after doing some tests with one and all the positive feedback he had with his choices for the ThunderChild, he decided to be much more conservative and not change much around. The more expensive compression drivers he tested didn't seem to add as much performance as he assumed, and to keep the cost of the cabinet moderate, he decided to use the same parts, etc. I think the crossover is around 1.8-1.9 kHz, but I cited the transition as starting a bit lower (I can hear content in the 1.6-1.7 kHz range through the compression driver).

I think Duke's out of town for the next couple days, so I don't know if he'll say much here.

 

[thudfromafar]

Thanks for the comment, I'll just have to wait till Duke is around again. I pm'd him about it but I have been waiting for this thing for quite a while so I am super anxious.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I'm out of town and only have intermittent internet access at a public library, so this will be brief.

Thanks Derek, for contacting me many moons ago about an acoustic guitar cabinet, and for your patience with me. The wheels in my head turn faster than the wheels in my hands.

The rear-firing tweeter is of course my big surprise in this cab, and I think it will work better for double bass because double-bass players often have to place the cab fairly far away to minimize feedback issues (which are typically south of 150 Hz). This way they can more clearly hear what's coming out of the cab.

Also, the radiation pattern matchup between my rectangular horn and woofer is good, but not ideal because the horn's pattern is narrower in the vertical plane. The rear-firing tweeter fills is some of that reverberant energy, and results in a bit more natural-sounding presentation in my opinion.

Now the rear-firing tweeter + its high-pass filter ended up being more expensive than I'd anticipated, so I took a hard look at whether or not it was worthwhile going with the more expensive compression drive (which would have pushed the price well north of $900). Well so far no one has deemed the orginal compression driver to be "broke", so I decided not to "fix it". The introductory price for the TC Acoustic will be $800, good 'til July 1st, after which it goes up to $850.

Okay they're kicking me out now. BYe.

 

[Passinwind]

I met up with Duke yesterday in Boise and picked up my cab at the Talkbass GTG there. Quite a few people played through it, with a wide variety of instruments and playing styles. This is the third Thunderchild variant I've played through, and this version is definitely my favorite so far. I'll post more thoughts in a day or two, after I get to really dig into what it can do.

For now I'll just say that hearing Michael Manring playing fretless BG through my rig at the GTG was simply astounding. Well done Duke!

 

[JimmyM]

Michael was at a TB GTG in Boise??? what the...???

 

[IntrepidCellist]

Pictures? Clips? That's awesome!

 

[Passinwind]

Michael was at a TB GTG in Boise??? what the...???

Yep, Boise TB'er bobunit and his lovely wife Patti put on a killer [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] last night and a GTG yesterday afternoon. At least three of us did 5 hour + drives in -- for Duke and me Boise is pretty much halfway between where we live.

Michael was gracious enough to drop by at the GTG and play for 20-30 minutes and chat for a while. He's a really nice cat, I got to talk to him at Bob's house on Friday for a while too. He's a Markbass endorser, so I'm not sure if any pics or vids or whatever will be posted, but someone surely must have some. I just hope some of that mojo got left on my rig...oh man!

 

[JimmyM]

very cool, charlie!

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Passinwind - What cabinet did he make for you? I know you'll get around to a proper review later, just curious if I know what it is

Jimmy - Have you ever tried playing your SVT through the 2x12 Duke made for you?


General (not an) update: I didn't get the recordings done, my friend was sick and the Super Reverb we were going to use ended up having a blown tube. I have to reschedule the recording. It's been kind of a crazy week, but something interesting - I can really hear the cabinet gradually become smoother and more open. I heard this and commented on it to Duke after using it the first three hours, but I thought maybe it was partially fatigue However, over the last week, friends have commented on it unprompted and they wouldn't have anticipated the changes they heard.

I am loving the cabinet more as everything in settling in and I can get a feel how to better adjust playing technique on both guitar and bass. It sounds both more natural and closer to my imagined ideal on electric guitar as the compression driver becomes smoother, and on bass especially it has taken on a silken quality. I'm very happy!

 

[Passinwind]

Passinwind - What cabinet did he make for you? I know you'll get around to a proper review later, just curious if I know what it is

Take another look at the subtitle in post #46. It's the same spec as yours, I believe.

My experience with both 3012LFs and 3015LFs definitely supports hearing an audible difference after a break-in period. My cab got whomped on fairly hard yesterday, but I still do intend to hold off doing on a real review for a couple of days at least. I'm sure I'll take a stab at a sound clip or two sooner than later too.Judging from what I've heard so far, I expect the cab to fit my multipurpose needs quite nicely though.

I'll take a pic of the back tweeter arrangement tomorrow morning, when my digicam's batteries are recharged.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Thanks Derek, for contacting me many moons ago about an acoustic guitar cabinet, and for your patience with me. The wheels in my head turn faster than the wheels in my hands.

You actually contacted me first, through PM, almost two years ago now I was trying to find a speaker that would go around 6-10kHz to get the sweet highs and air without having an awful hole in frequency response or dispersion, and the final product definitely does that with incredible grace. Thanks again for all the back and forth and all of the work you put into this, Duke.

 

[JimmyM]

Passinwind - What cabinet did he make for you? I know you'll get around to a proper review later, just curious if I know what it is

Jimmy - Have you ever tried playing your SVT through the 2x12 Duke made for you?

only once. it sounded like an svt di'd through a good pa. very similar to recordings of the a-designs reddi di that i've heard on basstasters.com. had only slight less concussion value than my 810, too. it's different, for sure, but no less amazing.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Take another look at the subtitle in post #46. It's the same spec as yours, I believe.

My experience with both 3012LFs and 3015LFs definitely supports hearing an audible difference after a break-in period. My cab got whomped on fairly hard yesterday, but I still do intend to hold off doing on a real review for a couple of days at least. I'm sure I'll take a stab at a sound clip or two sooner than later too.Judging from what I've heard so far, I expect the cab to fit my multipurpose needs quite nicely though.

I'll take a pic of the back tweeter arrangement tomorrow morning, when my digicam's batteries are recharged.

Ah, I don't pay enough attention! I'm glad you see it fitting your needs well, I'd feel a little guilty recommending it earlier if it didn't.

only once. it sounded like an svt di'd through a good pa. very similar to recordings of the a-designs reddi di that i've heard on basstasters.com. had only slight less concussion value than my 810, too. it's different, for sure, but no less amazing.

Awesome. I'll have to try it out when the opportunity presents itself. I have the ShuttleMAX 12 right now as my only bass amp, which does sound amazing, but the TC shows what the amp is doing so well that it'd be a lot of fun playing with some of these classic heads.

 

[Passinwind]

Ah, I don't pay enough attention! I'm glad you see it fitting your needs well, I'd feel a little guilty recommending it earlier if it didn't.

No worries Derek, I probably would still have opted for it either way. Duke really wanted my feedback on this model since I have several luthier friends who do acoustic instruments, and he has also heard me play before and thought it would likely suit me a little better than the original production TC. Any of the three versions I've heard would be more than fine by me, honestly. I really dig the secondary tweeter idea though...

 

[Passinwind]

Here's a pic of the back of the acoustic-friendly Thunder Child, aka TC112AF until Duke comes up with an official naming convention.

Link Removed

 

[MooseLumps]

It's a beauty of a cab. I loved the additional content from behind. When you play a slab through it, it has this "airspace" in the room that you lack from other cabs.

Slaughtered my lsx1503, but I expected that.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Thanks for posting the picture, Charlie!

What we see on the back of the cab is tweeter switches (upper left corner); tweeter and spring-loaded input terminals (upper middle), and Speakon/quarter-inch combo jacks (upper right corner). Down below we have two 3" diameter flared ports, diagonally behind the woofer cone.

The tweeter is somewhat unusual in that it covers the spectrum from about 2 kHz on up, which is going quite low for a prosound-capable tweeter. This tweet is playing considerably softer than the front-firing horn, and complements the reduced-level midrange energy that comes through the ports. The spring-loaded home audio style inputs just below the tweeter offer the option of using the cab in your home audio system, as imho it's capable of doing double-duty (though the bottom 1.5 octaves are missing without a subwoofer). I recommend 45 degrees of toe-in when using a pair in a home audio setting, such that the horn axes criss-cross in front of the listening position.

Mooselumps, "airspace" is a good description of what the rear tweet adds to the presentation. It changes the feel, more than actually changing the tonal balance. Also, note that my cab is over three times more expensive than your 15" 3-way Carvin, so mine darn well better sound good in comparison! Frankly your rig sounded great and is outstanding bang-for-the-buck, and I couldn't begin to improve on it in that category.

The rear-firing tweeter is not an original idea. I first encountered it in a home audio speaker made by the late great Peter Snell, which he called the Type A. Ironically, it was designed to go up against the wall. Albert Von Schwiekert also uses rear-firing tweeters on some of his models. If anyone knows of other prosound/MI models with a rear-firing tweeter, let me know.

 

[KJung]

Totally cool!