I am definitely looking for the most "uncolored" cab possible that can be used for live acoustic instruments as well as recorded music... and with very uniform dispersion... 
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AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two
- Thread starter Thor
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Hey Ken
I think your living room has better acoustics than your basement.
Thanks so much for all the vids. You're the man
I'll be getting the cabinet tomorrow, and recording my friend playing guitar through it on Friday. If anyone's interested I'll post the results.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,066
- 45,999
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Of course, thanks. Are you going to be using it it for bass at some point too though?
Of course, thanks. Are you going to be using it it for bass at some point too though?
Hahha, absolutely, but I don't know when I'd get a chance in a studio to do a proper recording. I play mostly bass and cello, so it'll get plenty of bass-use at home. I just have the most atrocious acoustics imaginable here
If I close mic'd the direct radiation in front, it would sound the same as using the Thunderchild.The truck just pulled up to my house, so you'll probably get a short initial impression out of my by tonight
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,066
- 45,999
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Hahha, absolutely, but I don't know when I'd get a chance in a studio to do a proper recording. I play mostly bass and cello, so it'll get plenty of bass-use at home. I just have the most atrocious acoustics imaginable here
No comment until you see the cab.
The truck just pulled up to my house, so you'll probably get a short initial impression out of my by tonight
yay!
- Nov 24, 2008
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- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
I think there's a good chance that I'll be able to do an "acoustic-friendly" version of the 115.
I've been having too much fun I've tried it out with both electric guitar (Strat) and a couple basses (P & J), as well as recorded material. As everyone else has remarked, the compression driver crosses over so gracefully from the 12 that it sounds entirely natural. The sound is incredibly even. I can move all around the fretboard with remarkably consistent character with either guitar or bass. The quality of the high end is beautiful. The integration of the compression driver with the woofer and the evenness of tone is better than many studio monitors on the market, and certainly the ones I own 
With guitar, I'm using low inductance pickups that have a strong voltage ouput, along with a low capacitance cable, which gives me considerably more high end extension and allows me to chose smaller capacitors on the tone control to add in upper mid coloration where I like. I can then balance the amount of high end and the amount of coloration, instead of having the dramatic dropoff from the pickup's inductance and cable capacitance reacting together and cutting out too much high end, or adding undesirable coloration within the upper mids. With the pickup in the neck position and the 12' cable I'm using, the resonance occurs at 9 kHz, far above the range conventional guitar cabinets reproduce. With an additional inductance filter on the tone control, I get even more extension above the coloration as I turn the control down.
What I end up doing is adding in some color around 2.4 kHz, firmly in the 2-3 kHz range many guitar speakers have their resonance in, while avoiding the over-exaggerated peaky response those speakers have and keeping the highs above (but engaging Duke's rolloff filter). It's entirely different than the results you'd get from a normal guitar rig, and it's exciting
You hear all the sweet highs in the 6 kHz range, and the acoustic air that happens around 10 kHz, which all sounds fantastic with clean tones. I haven't experimented too much with dirt yet, but what I've heard is promising
I wouldn't try this with a standard guitar setup without using some modeling to get it to sound more like a standard cab, with the benefit of the cabinet's much-increased dispersion in the upper mids over traditional guitar cabs, but that's not the type of setup I'm working with at all.
I played the basses (Precision and Jazz) through a ShuttleMax 12.0. I was surprised how much I preferred the sound of both through this cab over my Berg AE 2x10. The Berg does its thing well, and definitely seems to have greater sensitivity, but I admire the 'acoustic-friendly' ThunderChild more for its lack of an upper-bass bump, its low end extension, more even and natural response, increased dispersion and beautiful upper mid presentation in comparison. I have the impression that the Berg is generally more sensitive, but the voicing it has in the upper mids and the bump higher up in the lows probably exaggerates this perception considerably. Of course, you can add in this type of coloration with the ThunderChild through EQ at less cost than trying to add in the low end extension to the Berg. The rolloff or flat option on the TC is more useful to me than the tweeter level control used on the Berg and other bass cabs. There’s plenty of situations where the Berg would get you “there” quickly and effortlessly if it does what you like, especially with cone breakup when driven harder, so it’s really comparing two types of good. I like what the ThunderChild does more. If you don’t have a lot of wattage to work with and need to get pretty loud, I would probably wait for Duke’s 15” design,
There’s two ways (from what I can tell) that my cabinet is unique from what Ken has. The reason it’s “acoustic-friendly” is the addition of a tweeter in the back, crossed over around 2 kHz as well, operating at a much lower volume. The way Duke has the ports placed (when not plugged) allows a fair amount of midrange from the woofer out. The image presented by the back isn’t identical to the front, but gives a nice bit of definition for those listening behind (bandmates?) or adds something nice to the reverberant energy in the room to fill out the space when you’re not within the direct radiation of the front (which is already very wide). It’s an impressive innovation that makes a considerable difference in the room, but won’t upset anyone standing behind the cab.
I also asked that Duke install home audio terminals so I could hook it up to a conventional home stereo. While running recorded music through it, I found it more pleasing than most speakers I’ve come across. On thing particularly impressive: all the piano recordings I listened to sounded great! Most of my music background is with orchestral strings and piano, and the TC pulled it all off rather gracefully. I was expecting something respectable, but I liked how it presented acoustic instruments more than what my studio monitors do. I was able to talk to Duke this afternoon, and in response to both his and my reaction, he’s planning on including it by default on this model. I think I’ll end up getting another for home listening and so I have both bass and guitar setups covered in one of my bands.
There you go! Sorry it’s a bit late and a bit long, It’s still a first impression, and I have a lot to think about, but it’s a beautiful cab that opens up a lot of possibilities for what I want to explore.
I've tried it out with both electric guitar (Strat) and a couple basses (P & J), as well as recorded material. As everyone else has remarked, the compression driver crosses over so gracefully from the 12 that it sounds entirely natural. The sound is incredibly even. I can move all around the fretboard with remarkably consistent character with either guitar or bass. The quality of the high end is beautiful. The integration of the compression driver with the woofer and the evenness of tone is better than many studio monitors on the market, and certainly the ones I own With guitar, I'm using low inductance pickups that have a strong voltage ouput, along with a low capacitance cable, which gives me considerably more high end extension and allows me to chose smaller capacitors on the tone control to add in upper mid coloration where I like. I can then balance the amount of high end and the amount of coloration, instead of having the dramatic dropoff from the pickup's inductance and cable capacitance reacting together and cutting out too much high end, or adding undesirable coloration within the upper mids. With the pickup in the neck position and the 12' cable I'm using, the resonance occurs at 9 kHz, far above the range conventional guitar cabinets reproduce. With an additional inductance filter on the tone control, I get even more extension above the coloration as I turn the control down.
What I end up doing is adding in some color around 2.4 kHz, firmly in the 2-3 kHz range many guitar speakers have their resonance in, while avoiding the over-exaggerated peaky response those speakers have and keeping the highs above (but engaging Duke's rolloff filter). It's entirely different than the results you'd get from a normal guitar rig, and it's exciting
You hear all the sweet highs in the 6 kHz range, and the acoustic air that happens around 10 kHz, which all sounds fantastic with clean tones. I haven't experimented too much with dirt yet, but what I've heard is promisingI wouldn't try this with a standard guitar setup without using some modeling to get it to sound more like a standard cab, with the benefit of the cabinet's much-increased dispersion in the upper mids over traditional guitar cabs, but that's not the type of setup I'm working with at all.
I played the basses (Precision and Jazz) through a ShuttleMax 12.0. I was surprised how much I preferred the sound of both through this cab over my Berg AE 2x10. The Berg does its thing well, and definitely seems to have greater sensitivity, but I admire the 'acoustic-friendly' ThunderChild more for its lack of an upper-bass bump, its low end extension, more even and natural response, increased dispersion and beautiful upper mid presentation in comparison. I have the impression that the Berg is generally more sensitive, but the voicing it has in the upper mids and the bump higher up in the lows probably exaggerates this perception considerably. Of course, you can add in this type of coloration with the ThunderChild through EQ at less cost than trying to add in the low end extension to the Berg. The rolloff or flat option on the TC is more useful to me than the tweeter level control used on the Berg and other bass cabs. There’s plenty of situations where the Berg would get you “there” quickly and effortlessly if it does what you like, especially with cone breakup when driven harder, so it’s really comparing two types of good. I like what the ThunderChild does more. If you don’t have a lot of wattage to work with and need to get pretty loud, I would probably wait for Duke’s 15” design,
There’s two ways (from what I can tell) that my cabinet is unique from what Ken has. The reason it’s “acoustic-friendly” is the addition of a tweeter in the back, crossed over around 2 kHz as well, operating at a much lower volume. The way Duke has the ports placed (when not plugged) allows a fair amount of midrange from the woofer out. The image presented by the back isn’t identical to the front, but gives a nice bit of definition for those listening behind (bandmates?) or adds something nice to the reverberant energy in the room to fill out the space when you’re not within the direct radiation of the front (which is already very wide). It’s an impressive innovation that makes a considerable difference in the room, but won’t upset anyone standing behind the cab.
I also asked that Duke install home audio terminals so I could hook it up to a conventional home stereo. While running recorded music through it, I found it more pleasing than most speakers I’ve come across. On thing particularly impressive: all the piano recordings I listened to sounded great! Most of my music background is with orchestral strings and piano, and the TC pulled it all off rather gracefully. I was expecting something respectable, but I liked how it presented acoustic instruments more than what my studio monitors do. I was able to talk to Duke this afternoon, and in response to both his and my reaction, he’s planning on including it by default on this model. I think I’ll end up getting another for home listening and so I have both bass and guitar setups covered in one of my bands.
There you go! Sorry it’s a bit late and a bit long, It’s still a first impression, and I have a lot to think about, but it’s a beautiful cab that opens up a lot of possibilities for what I want to explore.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,066
- 45,999
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Nice review Derek. What amp(s?) were you using for guitar?
I use guitar synth and processed vocals in Passing Wind (besides bass, of course), it would be a huge bonus to be able to use this cab for those things in coffee house and winery settings. The possibilty of doing monitoring with it at the same time is even more appealing.
I used Egnater's Tweaker for some of the testing, which is pretty low wattage (15W) and has three switchable tonestack voicing (Fender/Vox/Marshall), good for getting some hair and compression on chords without getting too high volume. The bright switch (+8 dB @ 4kHz) wasn't irritating as it often is with other guitar speakers I've heard it through. I'm also trying it out with a Marshall DSL401 and a Fender Hot Rod Deville, but with all these amps, it's important to note that I approach a much flatter voicing than most people would use - mid control all the way up, treble and bass somewhere within the bottom quarter of their taper (depends on the amp, etc) - but I use similar settings most of the time with other speakers.
I don't want to give the impression that you could hook it up to a guitar amp and automatically get great results. I'm getting a much more balanced voice from the instrument than most guitarists would go after. I'll be trying it with either a Super or a Twin sometime soon, and that should tell me a lot more. I played the guitar through the ShuttleMax as well, and it sounded nice, but probably more immediate and unforgiving than most people are interested in. Adding a little reverb helps smooth that out The TC is clearly "less loud" than standard guitar speakers, but that's fine with me, because I've traded the ugly peaks and beaming The real test is whether, with a high quality clean amp, it'll work onstage and in the audience once you get rid of the volume competition just to hear yourself. I don't know yet! I'm assuming it'll be similar to the change people experience with the fEarful - it sometimes doesn't "feel loud" in situations everyone can already hear it perfectly. The additional clarity in the back really gives me confidence it will work well.
I think it would make a really high quality monitor for especially synth and vocals. It sounded great with all the recorded music I went through, and it's easy to thin out the low end a bit by getting it off the ground. You can put some tape over the rear tweeter if the people behind don't want the extra, but it's attenuated enough that I don't imagine it'd be an issue regardless.
I don't want to give the impression that you could hook it up to a guitar amp and automatically get great results. I'm getting a much more balanced voice from the instrument than most guitarists would go after. I'll be trying it with either a Super or a Twin sometime soon, and that should tell me a lot more. I played the guitar through the ShuttleMax as well, and it sounded nice, but probably more immediate and unforgiving than most people are interested in. Adding a little reverb helps smooth that out
The TC is clearly "less loud" than standard guitar speakers, but that's fine with me, because I've traded the ugly peaks and beaming The real test is whether, with a high quality clean amp, it'll work onstage and in the audience once you get rid of the volume competition just to hear yourself. I don't know yet! I'm assuming it'll be similar to the change people experience with the fEarful - it sometimes doesn't "feel loud" in situations everyone can already hear it perfectly. The additional clarity in the back really gives me confidence it will work well.I think it would make a really high quality monitor for especially synth and vocals. It sounded great with all the recorded music I went through, and it's easy to thin out the low end a bit by getting it off the ground. You can put some tape over the rear tweeter if the people behind don't want the extra, but it's attenuated enough that I don't imagine it'd be an issue regardless.
Derek, thanks for review, Duke's new cab sounds like a winner. Are you using a modeler (Fractal, etc) as your preamp for guitars? EDIT: just ready your response above.
This 'acoustic friendly' version cab with the rear-firing tweeter is quite a departure from the typical cabs discussed in the EB section of TB. I'm not a reader of the URB forums here, so I don't know if other cabs aimed at that market have similar approaches. I bet it'd sound fantastic on 'acoustic' guitars.
I'm sure Duke will chime in, wondering if feedback might be more of a concern with the more omni-directional dispersion of the highs this cab produces.
This 'acoustic friendly' version cab with the rear-firing tweeter is quite a departure from the typical cabs discussed in the EB section of TB. I'm not a reader of the URB forums here, so I don't know if other cabs aimed at that market have similar approaches. I bet it'd sound fantastic on 'acoustic' guitars.
I'm sure Duke will chime in, wondering if feedback might be more of a concern with the more omni-directional dispersion of the highs this cab produces.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,066
- 45,999
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Thanks again Derek. I do have a decent modeler rack for my guitar, but in general I like to do the Metheny-esque multi amp thing anyway, and would probably use a line out feed from my Fender (post-power section) into my "utility" amp and the TC as an EFX side and for stereo imaging. I'd just let the Fender do what it does for feedback, classic tube driven 'verb, etc., through its own speakers.
Lots to ponder here, especially since my amp has DSP like the Berg IP and I can program in all sorts of interesting permutations. The Boise GTG is only a week away, so I'll have plenty to say firsthand myself pretty soon.
BTW, Duke and I have been discussing some outside the box electric guitar cab ideas too. Hopefully we can make some time in Boise to pursue that further. BTW, all this guitar chatter is just bonus material -- I'm getting the TC with the intention of it being my primary, day to day EUB and fretless BG gigging cab.
Lots to ponder here, especially since my amp has DSP like the Berg IP and I can program in all sorts of interesting permutations. The Boise GTG is only a week away, so I'll have plenty to say firsthand myself pretty soon.
BTW, Duke and I have been discussing some outside the box electric guitar cab ideas too. Hopefully we can make some time in Boise to pursue that further. BTW, all this guitar chatter is just bonus material -- I'm getting the TC with the intention of it being my primary, day to day EUB and fretless BG gigging cab.
I spent about two hours with my friend's Axe-FX Ultra and Carvin DCM1540L rig through my Thunderchild. Sounded very authentic for both guitar and bass, and much more "headroom" than the Fractal Audio Reactor cabs. It also sounds great with my Mesa F-30 (basically an EL84-driven miniature Rectifier) for bass, even heavily distorted.
I used Egnater's Tweaker for some of the testing, which is pretty low wattage (15W) and has three switchable tonestack voicing (Fender/Vox/Marshall), good for getting some hair and compression on chords without getting too high volume. The bright switch (+8 dB @ 4kHz) wasn't irritating as it often is with other guitar speakers I've heard it through. I'm also trying it out with a Marshall DSL401 and a Fender Hot Rod Deville, but with all these amps, it's important to note that I approach a much flatter voicing than most people would use - mid control all the way up, treble and bass somewhere within the bottom quarter of their taper (depends on the amp, etc) - but I use similar settings most of the time with other speakers.
I don't want to give the impression that you could hook it up to a guitar amp and automatically get great results. I'm getting a much more balanced voice from the instrument than most guitarists would go after. I'll be trying it with either a Super or a Twin sometime soon, and that should tell me a lot more. I played the guitar through the ShuttleMax as well, and it sounded nice, but probably more immediate and unforgiving than most people are interested in. Adding a little reverb helps smooth that out
I think it would make a really high quality monitor for especially synth and vocals. It sounded great with all the recorded music I went through, and it's easy to thin out the low end a bit by getting it off the ground. You can put some tape over the rear tweeter if the people behind don't want the extra, but it's attenuated enough that I don't imagine it'd be an issue regardless.
Nice reviews and descriptions of this version of the cab. Thanks!
Duke seems to be firing on all cylinders!
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