AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke, my concern with the Hathor is how the top vents will function if I drop a full sized tube head on the top. I suspect those vents will get covered and thus not function as intended.

You will probably lose some of the upfiring backwave energy if the vents are covered. Well it probably won't be an airtight seal so much of that energy will still escape, but its more or less direct path to your ears (if you're standing beside the cab) will be obstructed. I realize some of that may not apply to your situation - just putting it out for general info.

However you still have great big openings on the sides, so I think you'll still be better off in the vertical plane than with a conventional sealed-back midrange enclosure. You can see one of the big side openings I'm talking about in this shot:

Those big openings on the side can double as "stage-scoot" handles for short distances. Just be aware of the tips of the screws that are holding the plastic corners in place.

There's another benefit to the open-format mid chamber that doesn't necessarily rely on a fairly clear path between the backwave and your ears. And that is, less internal reflections without having to rely on aggressive use of damping material, so it just sounds less like it's coming from a box. In my experience using a lot of absorptive damping material in a midrange chamber gives mixed results - yes coloration is reduced, but it seems to suck the life out of the sound, and I'm not really sure why. I don't know of a measurement that would reveal this effect (the measured response appears to improve as damping material is added), but I think I can hear it.

Also, how do you feel a 200w tube head would do with that beast? I know you said it can take 1,200w, so I'm curious if it will be power-hungry to get it to start singing.

At this point I can only speculate how the cab would sound with 200 tube watts, or 1200 solid state watts. Probably "big".

At moderate living room volume levels, it already sounds pretty big. In my opinion, the notes "pop". I think it sounds a little bit more lively than the Hathor 1203 at the same modest volume level. My source is a recording of a direct feed of a P-Bass, all controls flat and zero processing, burned to a CD and played through a modest NAD integrated amplifier, tone controls bypassed.

But this isn't the same as playing a bass through it, so wait until we get some feedback from bass players, as that will be worth a lot more than my (totally unbiased) opinion based on a recording.

 

[wave rider]

modest NAD integrated amplifier

NAD may be modest but the older ones I have sure sound great. Good stuff!

=wr=

 

[monsterthompson]

You will probably lose some of the upfiring backwave energy if the vents are covered. Well it probably won't be an airtight seal so much of that energy will still escape, but its more or less direct path to your ears (if you're standing beside the cab) will be obstructed. I realize some of that may not apply to your situation - just putting it out for general info.

However you still have great big openings on the sides, so I think you'll still be better off in the vertical plane than with a conventional sealed-back midrange enclosure. You can see one of the big side openings I'm talking about in this shot:

Those big openings on the side can double as "stage-scoot" handles for short distances. Just be aware of the tips of the screws that are holding the plastic corners in place.

There's another benefit to the open-format mid chamber that doesn't necessarily rely on a fairly clear path between the backwave and your ears. And that is, less internal reflections without having to rely on aggressive use of damping material, so it just sounds less like it's coming from a box. In my experience using a lot of absorptive damping material in a midrange chamber gives mixed results - yes coloration is reduced, but it seems to suck the life out of the sound, and I'm not really sure why. I don't know of a measurement that would reveal this effect (the measured response appears to improve as damping material is added), but I think I can hear it.



At this point I can only speculate how the cab would sound with 200 tube watts, or 1200 solid state watts. Probably "big".

At moderate living room volume levels, it already sounds pretty big. In my opinion, the notes "pop". I think it sounds a little bit more lively than the Hathor 1203 at the same modest volume level. My source is a recording of a direct feed of a P-Bass, all controls flat and zero processing, burned to a CD and played through a modest NAD integrated amplifier, tone controls bypassed.

But this isn't the same as playing a bass through it, so wait until we get some feedback from bass players, as that will be worth a lot more than my (totally unbiased) opinion based on a recording.

interesting that you mention "living room volume." that is where i will spend most of my playing time (sadly, in certain ways, but gladly in others). my thinking is that the sealed port options will help create some punch at low volumes, which isn't always what i'm currently getting from my ported cab. however, i'm a little concerned that 18" of cone might need some horsepower to open it up and get the magic.

my current collection of amps is a Mesa Buster, a Walkabout, and a Monique into a Crown XLS1000. i have been toying with the idea of adding one of the Peavey MiniMega heads into the mix (1,000w @ 4 ohms). since i won't likely play any huge arenas, and much of this town has FOH support, i'm thinking an 1855 in 4 ohms might be a very nice way to go.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

interesting that you mention "living room volume." that is where i will spend most of my playing time (sadly, in certain ways, but gladly in others). my thinking is that the sealed port options will help create some punch at low volumes, which isn't always what i'm currently getting from my ported cab. however, i'm a little concerned that 18" of cone might need some horsepower to open it up and get the magic.

my current collection of amps is a Mesa Buster, a Walkabout, and a Monique into a Crown XLS1000. i have been toying with the idea of adding one of the Peavey MiniMega heads into the mix (1,000w @ 4 ohms). since i won't likely play any huge arenas, and much of this town has FOH support, i'm thinking an 1855 in 4 ohms might be a very nice way to go.

Very nice collection of amps!

I forgot to post that promised shot of the 1203 stack yesterday (the backsides don't really count), so here it is:

You can see the little openings on the side for the open-format mid chamber. Why so small? It's a small chamber.

I don't blame you for being apprehensive about how an 18" cab does in the living room, especially one that uses a high power PA subwoofer driver. Hopefully before too long someone will be posting their experiences... but I didn't get the cab shipped out yet because I'd run out of the right kind of packing foam without realizing it. I should be receiving a new shipment of foam early next week.

 

[tombowlus]

Also, how do you feel a 200w tube head would do with that beast? I know you said it can take 1,200w, so I'm curious if it will be power-hungry to get it to start singing.

I should be able to weigh in on that fairly soon.

 

[nutdog]

Here are the Hathors 1203 and 1855:

Those look total badass. It may be buried in here somewhere but what are the weights/impedances (impedi?)?

 

[monsterthompson]

I should be able to weigh in on that fairly soon.

Tom, I'll be very interested to hear your impressions of the cab, particularly in moderate-volume settings. If it is a useful amp for practicing, I'll be much more interested than if it is primarily a sledgehammer for the stage.

 

[tombowlus]

Tom, I'll be very interested to hear your impressions of the cab, particularly in moderate-volume settings. If it is a useful amp for practicing, I'll be much more interested than if it is primarily a sledgehammer for the stage.

Got it.

 

[monsterthompson]

Tom, do you have any experience with the Peavey VB118? I'm guessing you probably do. I'd be interested in how the two line up. The Peavey is gonna be cheaper, and it misses the mid drivers, and it is heavier, but it seems to have an even higher power handling and is probably a touch easier to come by.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Those look total badass.

Thank you!

It may be buried in here somewhere but what are the weights/impedances (impedi?)?

Weights and impedii are as follows:

Hathor 1203: 24 pounds and 8 ohms

Hathor 1855: 49 pounds and 4 ohms, although I could do an 8 ohm version if anyone wants a stackable pair.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

the Peavey VB118... seems to have an even higher power handling...

If we do an apples-to-apples comparison, the RMS power handling of the Peavey is 800 watts, while the RMS power handling of the Faital is 1200 watts. The Peavey is rated at 1600 watts program, and the Faital is rated at 2400 watts program, but I make my claims based on the more conservative RMS rating. (Technically it's not "RMS", but rather based on a strenuous test protocol specified by the Audio Engineering Society.)

Also the Peavey's claimed x-max is 9.6 mm while the Faital's claimed x-max is 12.45 mm. Different manufacturer measure x-max with different yardsticks and without knowing the actual formula Peavey uses, that's harder to compare. Faital uses a fairly optimistic yardstick for x-max, but it seems to correlate well with the onset of audible fart-out (judging by experience comparing their smaller woofers with Kappalites). Measured with a conservative yardstick, the Faital's x-max would be 9.7 mm. That's more than enough excursion for my cab to handle a 1200 watt sine wave down to 38 Hz.

The Peavy is about 1 dB more efficient, based on the T/S parameters. Depending on the amplification used, that advantage may be more than offset by the Faital being a 4 ohm load.

The Peavey is still an extremely capable woofer, and if you're able to push either one beyond its limits, I hope you're not living on a fault line.

Yes my cabinet is lighter, but I don't skimp on panel stiffness. The front panel is double-thick; there are two full horizontal "window pane" braces, one between woofer & mids and the other at the woofer's midpoint (obviously that one is notched to make room for the woofer's magnet); the areas in between the port cut-outs on the back are reinforced; the top board is reinforced by the back of the midrange chamber; and the bottom board is reinforced by four pieces of 1x2 white pine arranged to particularly stiffen the center of the panel.

 

[Jeff Scott]

...I hope you're not living on a fault line.

IIRC, there are over 100 fault lines just in the L.A. basin alone, so the possibility is very good that he is on or very near one.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

IIRC, there are over 100 fault lines just in the L.A. basin alone, so the possibility is very good that he is on or very near one.

Thanks for the heads-up... better have my attorneys draft a new warranty...

 

[monsterthompson]

Duke, thanks for the detailed reply. I live a mile from the Peavey shop in Hollywood, so I'll likely pop over for a test run, if they have one in stock. I'm looking at their soon to be released 1,000 w mini mega head.

 

[tombowlus]

Tom, do you have any experience with the Peavey VB118? I'm guessing you probably do. I'd be interested in how the two line up. The Peavey is gonna be cheaper, and it misses the mid drivers, and it is heavier, but it seems to have an even higher power handling and is probably a touch easier to come by.

Actually, no, I don't; not yet, at least.

 

[blowinblue]

Duke, thanks for the detailed reply. I live a mile from the Peavey shop in Hollywood, so I'll likely pop over for a test run, if they have one in stock.

Assuming that you like the tone of the VB118, are you going to be able to lift it? The Peavey website shows that it weighs 81.35 lbs packed. Not sure what to make of that but if this figure accurately represents the packed weight and the shipping box weighs 10-11 lbs, that would make the cab around 70 lbs. Not an easy lift.

M. M.

 

[nostatic]

You can see the little openings on the side for the open-format mid chamber. Why so small? It's a small chamber.

Winning. Obviously the correct solution is a pair of H1203s and a pair of TC112s (8ohm). Mix and match depending on the gig. And if you want to channel steubig, run stereo. Puma 500 on top of a H1203/TC112 x2. Game over.

Now where is that earthquake insurance insurance rider...

 

[monsterthompson]

Assuming that you like the tone of the VB118, are you going to be able to lift it? The Peavey website shows that it weighs 81.35 lbs packed. Not sure what to make of that but if this figure accurately represents the packed weight and the shipping box weighs 10-11 lbs, that would make the cab around 70 lbs. Not an easy lift.

M. M.

right? i can pick up my Mesa PH115, which isn't far from that. it sucks, but i can do it. thank the lord for wheels.

 

[IntrepidCellist]

Also, I think you're probably going to get far better performance out of a two-way highly-engineered AudioKinesis system than simply placing a single 1x18 in even the most well-designed reflex box.

 

[christw]

^ Absolutely on both counts. My prior benchmark was a JBL E155-4 in a Mesa Road Ready TL box. It weighed well over 100 lbs and can't hold a candle to the TC118 in any category besides old school mojo.