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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
Just chiming in to say that I too love the neo soul sound, though I must admit to not having much of an idea of how to get it as I haven't really tried. I have a TC112 v.1 with a shuttle 9 which I find to be quite smooth, but perhaps not quite enough "presence" to really nail that tone. I'd add a big +1 to the tally of folks interested in getting that voicing out of one of Duke's cabs
I dont' want to speak for duke, but I think he would have to fundamentally alter the charachter of his cabs to be low or low mid voices. The vision of the Audiokenesis gear is to be very neutral voiced. I still think the TC line could do it, if provided with the right eq and compression since the TC lines gives back pretty much exactly what you put in. There are lots of other manufactures like LDS for example, and TC electronics, that make very bassy sounding cabs. I sold my TC 212's and don't miss them-now there was a colored cab. Super dark and low mid heavy, and in the end, not very versatile.
You know I was thinking more about this and I bet you're right. Perhaps I should have said "I need to learn how to get that tone with my TC112 and other gear." TBH I bet the cab could do it pretty well if I fed it the right signal. In addition I bet there is a good amount of signal processing going on in those tracks mentioned above that gets the bass to sound like it does. Lots of moving parts, to be sure...
That said, hopefully this discussion sheds some light on the fact that there is at least a niche interest in trying reproducing that sound live with a AK box being part of the equation.
From reading the posts and responses, I think the AK cab would perform exceptionally as with all of Duke's cabs-- with some experimentation. I was able to get a wide variety of sounds from my pair of H1203's. I hope he digs a bit deeper to find his sound. Best of luck to him.
I think he was talking about the TC Electronic 212 (RS212), not the Thunderchild 212.
One thing that I'm keenly aware of is that the bass players on the records I'm talking about all play different basses with different strings, pickups, and fingers, but yet the recording engineers find a why to make them all have a very similar tone and vibe. They're not all playing P basses with flats. The engineers have a room full of processors and software to make it sound however they want. When you try and get the same effect in a live setting with a bass amp and cab, you don't have nearly the same kind of options and flexibility. But I think you can get there if you have the ears to know what you're looking for. If that sound is firmly in your ears, you will find a way to get it, although it certainly helps to pick gear that leans in that direction, especially where low end is concerned.
Adam, I agree about the sounds we hear in mixed and mastered recordings. That doesn't stop millions of pedals, amps, strings, and things from being sold to feed players' expectation that those products will let them recreate some sound in a recording that they like.
Back to your objective.
Your realistic view of this all is admirable. I only wonder how the room will get your sound. If by your instrument amp alone, and/or by your cabinet miked, then using a specialized cabinet could be way to go. But if significantly by DI, then others' suggestions about sound shaping before your cabinet apply.As usual, I feel obligated to disclose: I am an ex-working musician, many years past my former practice of the craft (though I favored studio work, I gigged like anyone, short of extensive touring).
But as a sound/time/texturalist musician, when I play a bass guitar (my bass guitars, processors, amps, etc.), the whole chain is the instrument. By that measure, the player's live rig chain is the practical equivalent of the mastered recording. This was your last point, I believe. For practical application, I agree.
Yet with the equipment I own now, for my money I would not want or need a specialized cabinet to reach your stated objective. Yes, the Bassic15 was on my radar for a while, and I still would like to play one.
But I feel sure that my MAS-112 Eminence, ML-112 Series 1+, F112, or Hathor 1203 would make 'that sound' if I told them to by giving them a signal already sculpted to be so.
The MAS-112 and ML-112, in that order, would sound and feel sexiest and most authentic doing it; the F112 would impassively crush listeners into submission; and the Hathor 1203 would split the difference, but on a smaller scale (big sound, smaller scale; some sexy, but no crushing).
Though I have yet to play any other AudioKinesis bass cabinet model, for a large scale presentation of 'that sound' I would look to the big Hathors first, since I would expect and want some wooliness from them that I think the Thunderchildren are designed not to give.
Though I am juggling a few amp/head setups now, my default for 'that sound' is the Kern preamp into the front of the Blue Rock amp with the micro-Thumpinator in its loop. Roundwounds, no problem: just dial in the Blue Rock's EQ, then control the rest from my passive basses. Big, big, warm, low punchy, enveloping, thick, big bass. Big, too.
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Those are all great observations. I'm surprised about your description of your cabs though. I was very interested in the MAS-112 but I never got one because it seems geared towards a super hi-fi clear as a bell sort of tone and that's not really my thing. And the Baer seems to be all about the high midrange based on the BGM review and others.Adam, I agree about the sounds we hear in mixed and mastered recordings. That doesn't stop millions of pedals, amps, strings, and things from being sold to feed players' expectation that those products will let them recreate some sound in a recording that they like.
Back to your objective.
As usual, I feel obligated to disclose: I am an ex-working musician, many years past my former practice of the craft (though I favored studio work, I gigged like anyone, short of extensive touring).
But as a sound/time/texturalist musician, when I play a bass guitar (my bass guitars, processors, amps, etc.), the whole chain is the instrument. By that measure, the player's live rig chain is the practical equivalent of the mastered recording. This was your last point, I believe. For practical application, I agree.
Yet with the equipment I own now, for my money I would not want or need a specialized cabinet to reach your stated objective. Yes, the Bassic15 was on my radar for a while, and I still would like to play one.
But I feel sure that my MAS-112 Eminence, ML-112 Series 1+, F112, or Hathor 1203 would make 'that sound' if I told them to by giving them a signal already sculpted to be so.
The MAS-112 and ML-112, in that order, would sound and feel sexiest and most authentic doing it; the F112 would impassively crush listeners into submission; and the Hathor 1203 would split the difference, but on a smaller scale (big sound, smaller scale; some sexy, but no crushing).
Though I have yet to play any other AudioKinesis bass cabinet model, for a large scale presentation of 'that sound' I would look to the big Hathors first, since I would expect and want some wooliness from them that I think the Thunderchildren are designed not to give.
Though I am juggling a few amp/head setups now, my default for 'that sound' now is the Kern preamp into the front of the Blue Rock amp with the micro-Thumpinator in its loop. Roundwounds, no problem: just dial in the Blue Rock's EQ, then control the rest from my passive basses. Big, big, warm, low punchy, enveloping, thick, big bass. Big, too.
Again, I really love the sounds I get with my Hathor 1533. I'm just interested in checking out other flavors of awesome, something on the smoother and warmer side.
Also, you brought up a great point about how we're getting our tone into the room, whether mic'ing the cab, going direct, or both. However you do it, you're at the mercy of the engineer's taste because they can EQ you however they want. One thing to consider of course is that if you're sending a post-EQ DI to the board like I do with my Walkabout, the EQ you dial in on your amp is basically EQ'ing your cabinet to sound the way you want. So sending that tone to the board will never have the same tone in the house because the house speakers have an entirely different response. The other alternative is to use a DI box in front of my Walkabout to send a totally dry signal to the board and trust that the engineer will make it sound "good." Good luck with that, right. I've been thinking more and more that maybe mic-ing my cab is a better way to go but the soundman is only going to put one mic on it and how do you mic a cab with a speaker configuration like a Hathor 1533 with one mic? Ultimately again, it's up to the engineer (yuk).
And I'm not really looking for a specialized cabinet for one particular sound. Any cabinet can do more than one tone of course. I'm just looking for something smoother and warmer than what I have now as a different flavor. I don't expect to find any one cabinet that will give me the exact tone I'm looking for without touching my EQ controls. I do understand that that's not realistic.
And I'm not really looking for a specialized cabinet for one particular sound. Any cabinet can do more than one tone of course. I'm just looking for something smoother and warmer than what I have now as a different flavor. I don't expect to find any one cabinet that will give me the exact tone I'm looking for without touching my EQ controls. I do understand that that's not realistic.
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I was only half kidding. Experimenting with a variety of materials over the mid drivers might help. But snaxter makes a good point that in a live setting those mid/highs smooth out due to room/mix issues and are needed to keep the low end from sounding like a messy blob.
Thanks, Adam. Effectively there are three versions of the MAS-112, per the three woofers with which it can be built. Each sounds different, players say. "super hi-fi" is not how my MAS-112 Eminence sounds. My F112 is much more like that, but even it can be tempered with its controls.
My MAS-112 is merciless and seductive. Clear, yes, but not as a bell. As a pretty old fellow, I can report that it sounds and feels like an old tube era home stereo; like big Advent speakers. But quick and present in a way that the old cabinets never could be. It has a beautiful, enveloping wooliness along with its immediacy.
Based on my Hathor 1203 and others' reports of their bigger Hathors, I would expect the bigger Hathors to be much more like the MAS-112, but with Duke's characteristic voicing and spatial presentation instead of Mike's.
As for Baer cabinets, my ML-112 is the only one I ever played. For me, it is not nearly "all about the high midrange". Here is what I wrote about it at first:
Right, of course no one wants their bass to sound like a messy blob. I find the challenge is to get a balance between "messy blob" and "Marcus Miller." I absolutely hate bright bass tones, slapping (sorry guys), and bass tones that "cut through the mix." In my opinion, the bass supports the music, not cuts through it.
In the 70's and early 80's it was not uncommon for guitarists with Marshall half stacks to put packing blankets over their cabs so they could crank them up to reach that tone nirvana without killing peoples' ears. Now of course there are external attenuators and master volumes on Marshalls so they can achieve that tone.
yes I was! Sorry about the confusion. I used to have a 2x tC electronics RS 212 rig. Darkest rig ever.
I had a good chance to hear my rig from the audience the other day, and let me tell you, from even 20 feet away the tone that sounded too bright to me on stages, was fat, full, punchy, and not bright at all in the audience. The drummers cymbals completely bury the crispy part of the bass tone anyway. I was SUPER pleased with how the AK speakers sounded. FUll, deep, yet not too bright. Amazing low end projection without being muddy.
