AudioKinesis Cabs V!!!!

[Thumper]

I thought about that too, but you see, there's this other designer out there whose cabs are fRIGHTfully good, and he's using the 3012LF in a very well designed bigger box that goes deeper. I'd like to offer something that fills a slightly different market niche, trading off bottom end authority for a size and weight savings. I figure the community of bass players is better served by having a wider variety of choices, rather than having two cabs whose only real difference is mid/tweet vs PA-style horn.

I agree, this was the key to my decision. I was on the verge of going a fF or compact direction (212 single cab or 2 112s) as a compromise to what I really wanted - a 15 solution. But all the 15s were heavy (50 Ibs give or take). I decided not to compromise and have a certain red composite coming my way at 33 lbs. My L5, L1 and C5; and physical therapist will all be happy.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

BTW, if anyone has questions about whether the Thunderchild 112 plays well with lower-powered amps, they can rest easier now.

I bought a G-K MB200 on the weekend, to use as a gig-bag backup for my MB800, and for acoustic jams. Sounds absolutely stellar with my 112AF, and plays louder than I would have expected. It does start to get a little "loose" sounding when it's maxed out, as if the smaller output stage doesn't have quite as firm a grasp on the woofer. Still pretty amazing for a couple of pounds, though, and I actually like it better than the bigger head at really low volume levels.

 

[John D Harris]

Can someone who's heard the TC115 & TC212 comment on the tonal differences?

 

[Mike Arnopol]

While the TC112 is very flat the 15 is the flattest frequency response on the planet.

After extensive playing of both I prefer the 12. It doesn't go as loud as the 15 but I feel that the low end is tauter and punchier. A lot is the amp, too.Ken Jung was over with a Tonehammer and I thought it was an amp that I didn't like. With the 15 it seemed to give a little more oomph where needed. A very useful combination. I like the Tonehammer better with the 15 than my current favorite, the Puma 900. (thanks again to Ken)

But I still go a bit more for the 12. Two of the 12's are glorious.

If there was a gig that was within the dynamic limits of the 12 (pretty astounding dynamic limits) I'd go for the 12 over the 15.

 

[nutdog]

I have the 212 now and had a 115AFwide model for a few gigs. There was a month or two in between so I didn't have them side by side. They are certainly in the same tonal universe but I prefer the form of the 212. The extra height makes it easier to hear when playing up close. The 15 was easy to move but the slimmer, taller 212 is even easier. This one is composite and the 15 was wood so they were exactly the same weight at 41 lbs.

I think the 212 might be tighter than the 15. But the 15 wasn't loose. There is something about 2 speakers of the same kind right on top of each other that's kind of magical, IMO. It gets louder than I think I would ever play it. Scary, actually, how loud it will get yet still stay clean and tight.

As an aside the shuttlemax 9.2/212 sounds really sweet with an acoustic guitar.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I have the 212 now and had a 115AFwide model for a few gigs. There was a month or two in between so I didn't have them side by side. They are certainly in the same tonal universe but I prefer the form of the 212. The extra height makes it easier to hear when playing up close. The 15 was easy to move but the slimmer, taller 212 is even easier. This one is composite and the 15 was wood so they were exactly the same weight at 41 lbs.

I think the 212 might be tighter than the 15. But the 15 wasn't loose. There is something about 2 speakers of the same kind right on top of each other that's kind of magical, IMO. It gets louder than I think I would ever play it. Scary, actually, how loud it will get yet still stay clean and tight.

As an aside the shuttlemax 9.2/212 sounds really sweet with an acoustic guitar.

Your description of how the two compare sonically seems correct to me on all counts. Nice job!

Interesting that you find the tall 212 easier to move. Tonight I finalized the crossover design for another tall cab with a fairly small footprint.

You see, I recently found a 15" woofer whose tone I really like. Now it doesn't rival the power of the Kappalites, so I'll have to use two of them. And yes I did say a while back that I would never do a 215 cab, but imo this woofer needs to be used in pairs. I'm keeping its identity under my hat for now, gotta get a jump on the competition you know. Will be using a single cone midrange in an open-format mid chamber, along the lines of the Hathor 1544. Switchable between "smooth mids" and "rather interesting mids", and it's the latter that I'm excited about because that's an area that I've never gone boldly into before.

 

[Lia_G]

Sounds really cool Duke.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[Mystic Michael]

You see, I recently found a 15" woofer whose tone I really like. Now it doesn't rival the power of the Kappalites, so I'll have to use two of them. And yes I did say a while back that I would never do a 215 cab, but imo this woofer needs to be used in pairs. I'm keeping its identity under my hat for now, gotta get a jump on the competition you know. Will be using a single cone midrange in an open-format mid chamber, along the lines of the Hathor 1544. Switchable between "smooth mids" and "rather interesting mids", and it's the latter that I'm excited about because that's an area that I've never gone boldly into before.

Ooh, sounds like an experiment! I LOVE a good experiment!

MM

 

[loopee]

will they be anything like my ThunderTots? Of course not, but.....would it be worth it for me to upgrade to a pair of your new 112's? How heavy are they?

The new 8-ohm TC112 will have the same dimensions and weight as the original 4-ohm TC112, to within a few ounces (the difference would be in crossover parts). So that's 22" tall by 14" wide by 14" deep, and 31 pounds. I've been over-stating the weight of the 4-ohm TC112, so even if the inductors are a little bit heavier we'll still be within specs. Pricing will be the same, as will the port tuning, but the 8-ohm version will sound like it's tuned lower. This is because the parameters of the stock Kappalite 3012LF woofer lend themselves to a stronger bottom end, trading off a bit of efficiency along the way.

The "voicing" of the 8-ohm version will have a bit more upper midrange energy, like what you've been reading about the TC212. Will probably use the same compression driver as the original TC112, and if so, the price will be the same.

Lead time's probably not going to get any better, sorry!

 

[PDGood]

As much as I love the flat eq of the TChildren I think it's a good marketing move to have the mids variable. I keep reading where some people are taking amps that are voiced mid heavy and then turning the mids up further. I can't imagine what that sounds like (well, yes I can, but not in a good way). But the point is, they are potential customers and if that's what they want - then that's what they'll buy.
Good move on your part, Duke.

 

[nutdog]

As much as I love the flat eq of the TChildren I think it's a good marketing move to have the mids variable. I keep reading where some people are taking amps that are voiced mid heavy and then turning the mids up further. I can't imagine what that sounds like (well, yes I can, but not in a good way). But the point is, they are potential customers and if that's what they want - then that's what they'll buy.
Good move on your part, Duke.

I think the whole super mid thing comes from guys playing loud rock with two or more electric guitars playing power chords and drummers with double bass, 12 toms and 40 cymbals on meth. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[loopee]

yes, pretty much.....you'd need more mids to get heard above that.....

 

[Lia_G]

How heavy are they?

From the post you quoted, 31 pounds.

Liam

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Sounds really cool Duke.

Thank you! The prototype Hathor 215 pretty much starts out with "the sound that's in my head" when I think of how a bass cab sounds, which obviously the smooth Thunderchild and first-generation Hathor did not. This cab will also be sealed, as that's what works best for this particular woofer.

Ooh, sounds like an experiment! I LOVE a good experiment!

Oboy, you should see the experiments that never make it out of the lah-BORE-ah-TOR-ee! Among the more interesting: I came up with a way to give a vertical 2x15 cab slightly wider dispersion than a vertical 2x12 (with very little impact on the tone), but it eats up a significant amount of internal volume so it's not going to be used in this project. Also experimented with various compact down-firing/slot-firing geometries, so I think I understand what they do, but again not what I'm looking for.

will they be anything like my ThunderTots? Of course not, but.....would it be worth it for me to upgrade to a pair of your new 112's? How heavy are they?

Look for a PM from me.

As much as I love the flat eq of the TChildren I think it's a good marketing move to have the mids variable. I keep reading where some people are taking amps that are voiced mid heavy and then turning the mids up further. I can't imagine what that sounds like (well, yes I can, but not in a good way). But the point is, they are potential customers and if that's what they want - then that's what they'll buy.
Good move on your part, Duke.

Thank you! Yes there is a big segment of the market that I haven't really had anything to offer to. Just for the record, I have a specific target for what I want to do in the mids; it's not just "louder mids" across the board. Imo we don't want to get in a volume war with the guitarist because ultimately we'll either lose or go deaf & broke winning, so my intention is to exploit existing "slots" in the mix. For instance, guitar speakers generally have a major peak between 2 and 3 kHz, so imo it would be counter-productive to design a bass cab that has a huge peak in the same place. I learned that the hard way last year, when I built a cab that combined a 15" woofer with a 12" guitar speaker. I learn more from my failures than from my successes... and fortunately I've had a lot of failures!

I think the whole super mid thing comes from guys playing loud rock with two or more electric guitars playing power chords and drummers with double bass, 12 toms and 40 cymbals on meth. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm sure there comes a point where any "finesse" in the voicing of a bass cab is of academic interest only!

 

[nutdog]

Oooohh...sealed 215? This should be interesting.

 

[John D Harris]

Oooohh...sealed 215? This should be interesting.

yup!

 

[svtb15]

Wow.. A sealed 215? Im into that....
I am looking forward to seeing how it developed. Thats something that i could use on alot of my gigs.
I had a single DEEP 15 Bag End years ago.. I think it was the S15B-d... It had a front port that you could put on or take off... It was a great sounding 115 cab... BUT it was 24 inches deep... Which for club gigs on limited space stages wound up sitting way out onto a shallow stage... Less foot room for me.. But it still sounded fantastic... I have no idea what the internal Volume was of that cab, but it was not small....
I liked it with and without the port closed up.. With teh port sealed it was TIGHT...
I would love to see a good sounding 115 or 215 cab...
Im going to watch this thread...

 

[3rdcurve]

Do you have a release date for this 215 monster?

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Do you have a release date for this 215 monster?

Well, it's not really a monster. No Kappalite-class woofers; just aiming for a really nice, fairly traditional tone this go-round. The woofer whose tone comes the closest to what I'm looking for happens to be 15", and imo two are really called for to get the job done.

With a bit of luck, we're maybe a month or so away.

 

[3rdcurve]

News of a sealed 215 w/ mid, just in time to kick off part 6!