Double Bass AudioKinesis Thunderchild 112 cab

[Handyman]

Very interesting. Is this available in an 8ohm version, to allow for using two of these at one? Or would ganging two of these together be missing the point of an itty bitty 1x12 cab?

I've been using my Markbass 1x12 combo, and have been trying to decide what do do for situations when I need a bit more power. This place makes it hard to decide if I should add the matching MB cab, or go to an LMII head, and get a couple smaller cabs that I can use together for situations where I need more umph.

Granted, I've been blessed with a drummer who can control his volume, so this is doesn't happen all that often.

 

[KJung]

Very interesting. Is this available in an 8ohm version, to allow for using two of these at one? Or would ganging two of these together be missing the point of an itty bitty 1x12 cab?

I've been using my Markbass 1x12 combo, and have been trying to decide what do do for situations when I need a bit more power. This place makes it hard to decide if I should add the matching MB cab, or go to an LMII head, and get a couple smaller cabs that I can use together for situations where I need more umph.

Granted, I've been blessed with a drummer who can control his volume, so this is doesn't happen all that often.

Duke has a larger, more standard 112 using the stock 3012LF driver and an even more powerful horn/driver in a larger box in 8ohm format.

However, this cab, as you guessed, is optimized for stand alone use, and his 4ohm proprietary driver is matched perfectly for the output of the typical 500 what micro.

Interesting design, because due to the 4ohm impedance and that super 12, you really can have small, low, and loud using just a micro like the Markbass or Genz heads, or whatever.

Quite impressive, and so far, I've never seen nor heard anything else like it (the Berganitno HT112ER is tonally close, but heavier and a bit less even through the upper mids to my ear).

 

[Handyman]

However, this cab, as you guessed, is optimized for stand alone use, and his 4ohm proprietary driver is matched perfectly for the output of the typical 500 what micro.

Interesting design, because due to the 4ohm impedance and that super 12, you really can have small, low, and loud using just a micro like the Markbass or Genz heads, or whatever.

Thanks, that makes sense. Then I guess the more interesting question is how loud can this thing can get compared to the more traditional 1x12 in my MB combo amp, and how does it compare to using two traditional 1x12s?

 

[KJung]

Thanks, that makes sense. Then I guess the more interesting question is how loud can this thing can get compared to the more traditional 1x12 in my MB combo amp, and how does it compare to using two traditional 1x12s?

IMO, about 2/3rds the way toward most 2 x 112 stacks, if you can get some real power into it (like a Markbass LMII or F1 or whatever). It will actually sound softer than a more traditional 112 with the same amp at the same volume setting, but as you turn up and the 'normal' 112 (Epi 112UL, whatever) starts to compress and die, this one will keep going, almost to IMO and IME, 2 x 112 volume.

If you are pushing a 410 to its max, forget about it. However, if you are using a high quality 2 x 112 rig, and not pushing it to its limits, and crave a deeper low end and a smoother, flatter low mid/hi bass response, this thing is the mega bomb!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I've been playing my DB and EUB through this cab and I am really thrilled with the sound I'm getting... My guess is the mid/high horn driver has a lot to do with this.

Thank you. It's a joint effort: Concept, horn/compression driver, woofer, crossover. The crossover is the hard part.

Is this available in an 8ohm version, to allow for using two of these at one?

Adding more information to what Kjung posted, I have no plans to purchase a production run of 8-ohm woofers that are otherwise equivalent to my 4-ohm one (specifically, a little bit more efficient and a little bit more extened on top than the stock 3012LF, but trading off some low-bass energy).

The stock 3012LF calls for a lower crossover frequency than what I'm using in the Thunderchild, which in turn calls for a beefier (more expensive) compression driver. On a semi-custom basis I could combine the stock 3012LF with a suitable compression driver in the Thunderchild cabinet, but the cost would go up by about a hundred bucks, and we'd lose a bit of efficiency (from 95 dB/1 watt down to 93.8 dB/1 watt, based on the woofers' parameters).

 

[KJung]

Adding more information to what Kjung posted, I have no plans to purchase a production run of 8-ohm woofers that are otherwise equivalent to my 4-ohm one (specifically, a little bit more efficient and a little bit more extened on top than the stock 3012LF, but trading off some low-bass energy).

I guess one more comment (again, from the EB side, but a lot of guys over here double). I feel (having played a lot of the 12/6 boxes, which use the stock 3012LF driver with a mid driver crossed over at a lower frequency) that the description above regarding 'higher efficiency', but more importantly a slightly tighter low end and a bit more of the upper mids coming from the top of the driver is what makes this cab a bit 'magic' to me.

Those 12/6 cabs are so deep and smooth (not a bad thing), but they tend to (again IMO) lack a bit of 'punch and pop' for me. The Thunderchild is a very nice compromise among SPL, size, weight, and also voicing... deeper and more even that virtually all other 112's, but not so much so that you lose punch and definition with an EB in a mix.

Nice stuff, and my guess is the slightly more rolled off deep low end is actually a good thing for a DB in actual performance.

 

[bigbrowndoghous]

How does it sound sitting on a chair, or leaning on a wall as a monitor? I play double bass and I want the sound in my ear, not blowing into the body of my bass.

 

[KJung]

How does it sound sitting on a chair, or leaning on a wall as a monitor? I play double bass and I want the sound in my ear, not blowing into the body of my bass.

Since bass is omnidirectional (i.e. tilting doesn't really matter with hearing lower freqs), and since the upper midrange is mostly coming from the horn, with seems to disperse very nicely horizontally and vertically versus more typical 112's with a high crossed over tweeter and most of the upper mids coming from the driver, I'm liking the response of the cab standing close without having to tilt it up.

That being said, the rear ports are located in the mid and bottom of the cab, so there shouldn't be a lot of issue leaning it against a wall if you so choose, since there would still be (it seems) enough space between the ports and the wall to allow them to work.

K

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Since bass is omnidirectional (i.e. tilting doesn't really matter with hearing lower freqs
K

Mostly true - one will hear a perceived volume increase if the woofer is pointed directly towards the ear as the listener is not relying on reflections from room surfaces to hear the low freqs.

 

[KJung]

Mostly true - one will hear a perceived volume increase if the woofer is pointed directly towards the ear as the listener is not relying on reflections from room surfaces to hear the low freqs.

+1, and there are of course, still directional mids coming from the woofer. These cabs with either the mid drivers or in this case the big PA type horn crossed over low have 'less of an issue' with near field monitoring than the typical cab that has all the mids coming from the driver.

 

[hensonbass]

How does it sound sitting on a chair, or leaning on a wall as a monitor? I play double bass and I want the sound in my ear, not blowing into the body of my bass.

FWIW: I pulled out a small collapsible speaker stand that fits this cab perfectly and it points that horn right at your head like a monitor speaker and it sounds great.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I've looked, but is there a website for this cab or is it an unadvertised type of thing?

 

[KJung]

I've looked, but is there a website for this cab or is it an unadvertised type of thing?

Duke has a website (Audiokinesis.com I think) but it really about his high end home audio systems.

Here is a dealer site which has more info, although the pictures are still of the prototypes and not the final cabs.

Link Removed

 

[Mr. Pickles]

7 bills seems like a decent price for a cab with this level of performance.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Thanks! I was impressed with the sound in the YouTube videos you put up.

 

[KJung]

Thanks! I was impressed with the sound in the YouTube videos you put up.

Thanks. I continue to dig this cab. I'll have it in a mix or two soon to see how it does on the gig. It again isn't a 'miracle' cab, which will replace a 410 are a super high quality 212, but it wumps MUCH better than 90% of the 112's out there, and probably 75% of the 210's (and is smaller and lighter than most of them also). VERY impressive down low, and also handling slap transients, which is my main problem with smaller cabs turned up loud.. the xmax thing... they just compress like heck when you dig in and slap. This one is VERY stable through the frequency range of the bass at quite high volumes!

For DB, short of an all out Rockabilly sort of mega volume and mega percussive thing, I can't imagine that there would be a DB gig this wouldn't handle.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

My apologies for the website not being current. You can see specs and such at the bottom of the first post in this thread, on a forum I have at a high-end home audio site:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80644.0

 

[KJung]

I'm getting together with my buddy TBer Ric Vice this Saturday morning (I'll be in St. Louis for a gig). So, he should be able to provide some 'DB relevant' info on this cab after that.

We will have his Walter Woods and my Markbass LMII on hand.

 

[Ric Vice]

Where this cab excels IMO is how it reproduces very subtle details about an instrument's character. I'm using a Ehrlund pickup and the Thunderchild brought out some details I've never heard from my bass. It really sounded like a new instrument.

Ken Jung brought the Thunderchild over this weekend, and it's a very nice cabinet. It has great midrange articulation and the transition between the lower and upper register is very smooth. The horn in this cabinet is unlike any other I've ever played through. You can hear the attack of your instrument clearly, as part of the total sound of the instrument. The bass response is very tight but there's lots of it so it takes much less bass from the amp.

My guess is the mid/high horn driver has a lot to do with this. I think a lot of the UB voicing can get lost with the typical tweeter in most bass cabs. Maybe it's that it's not that important a frequency range when amplifying a bass guitar or that bass guitars don't produce much of those frequencies. I'm not sure. Whatever, the Thunderchild reproduces those DB sounds really well. Oh yeah, it sounds great with the slabs too!

It's one of the most consistent cabinets I've ever heard and is what I would want if I were doing a lot of Doubling with electric bass and upright because it reproduces both instruments beautifully. I was using the Walter Woods Ultra to drive the cabinet and IMHO you wouldn't need to have that powerful an amp with this speaker. For boomy rooms, it has plugs for the ports that will raise the low end response. The horn is tied to two switches that will change it's frequency response or defeat it entirely. Very nice cabinet. It definetly held it's own alongside a VL 208.

Ric

 

[KJung]

Ken Jung brought the Thunderchild over this weekend, and it's a very nice cabinet. It has great midrange articulation and the transition between the lower and upper register is very smooth. The horn in this cabinet is unlike any other I've ever played through. You can hear the attack of your instrument clearly, as part of the total sound of the instrument. The bass response is very tight but there's lots of it so it takes much less bass from the amp.



It's one of the most consistent cabinets I've ever heard and is what I would want if I were doing a lot of Doubling with electric bass and upright because it reproduces both instruments beautifully. I was using the Walter Woods Ultra to drive the cabinet and IMHO you wouldn't need to have that powerful an amp with this speaker. For boomy rooms, it has plugs for the ports that will raise the low end response. The horn is tied to two switches that will change it's frequency response or defeat it entirely. Very nice cabinet. It definetly held it's own alongside a VL 208.

Ric

Hey Ric. Nice to hang a bit!

Yes, it sounded great... more 'transparent' than the more low end attenuated and mid present VL208... lighter, and louder also.

Edit: By 'transparent', I mean that the amplified tone of the DB was MUCH closer to the acoustic tone with the Thunder Child than with the VL208 (which sounded good, but is quite voiced to the mids, and quite attenuated down low).