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Avatar or Greenboy?
- Thread starter Rajesh Arjan
- Start date
+1. Play em both. See which suits your needs and the sound in your head. Perhaps neither do and you may need to look elsewhere. There are plenty of options, and local players are probably your best alternative to audition different choices.
With a dave green cab you are paying less for brand name than about any other cab out there: nothing. Especially the fearfuls. There is essentially zero part of the cost associated with marketing, brand, etc. In fact you can paint any old name on there you want. Mine is unmarked. The high cost is entirely attributable to the high quality of the ingredients. For a frugal person, that should be reassuring. Compared to other high end cabs you will find nothing with less marketing cost baked into the price.
There are plenty of affordable giggable rigs out there on the 2nd hand market. List price is secondary if you have the patience to find out what you want and wait for it at a price you can afford.
I'm kind of slow to come around to things myself. I heard about the Greenboy stuff for a long time and thought, "how much better can they be?" I'd built a pair of TL 606's with 3015 drivers. They sounded great. A proven design, used by a number of name brand makers, like Mesa and Ampeg. Cheap and easy to build.
One day about three or four years ago, I went over to a GTG at 4Mal's house. We put all our 15" cabs out in a row, hooked up a Eden WT 800, selected a bass and a victim to play it. Same guy, same bass, same amp, we just moved the speaker cable from cab to cab at random. The clear and uncontested winner? A fEarful 12/6, hidden behind the big cabs. Damn it! Proven by the blind test.
So, I started building a 15/6/1. (because bigger is better, right!) When I finished, I did some more testing. Out went the TL-606's, the Epifani 12, the 2-15 cab with EV's.
Now, this was back before the evil empire of the east cornered the market in neodymium, and prices on the 3015LF almost doubled. My 3015LF cost me $150, the 18 sound mid driver cost another $120, $40 for the horn and lens, and about a hundred more for the crossover parts. All in, I had about $600 in materials and my labor. I'm a carpenter by trade, so building cabs is like R&R for me. I'm pretty content out in the shop with the stereo cranked up. So far, I've built three, a pair of 15/6/1's and a 12/6 cube. If I ever finish my kitchen remodel, my wife will let me build cabs again, next up: another 12/6 cube.
The lows and the clarity were unmatched. And that's what I was really after. I'd been hearing my various cabs start rolling off on both volume and punch below G on the E string. Now I've got these five string Dingwalls and the cabs are just not doing them justice. Hooking up the first fEarful was like getting new everything. I could now hear what my GK was capable of putting out, what my basses could do.
Of course the DIY guys are over the moon about fEarfuls. No more guessing, and trying things out, flying by the seat of your pants. But look how many guys heard what was going on and figured out how to get one built even if they couldn't DIY. Now you have authorized builders and one stop shopping for the DIY crowd.
Greenboy put the designs out there for anyone to use, built up a Greenboy forum, and got the whole thing going. Very cool. There is even a fEarful locator map. I'd suggest that the OP and his buddy find a cab to check out in their area. If you are near Portland, OR, shoot me a PM. I'll get you hooked up.
The used fEarfuls I've seen listed in the TB classifieds seem very reasonably priced. (I've been thinking about selling my 15/6/1's since my 12/6 cube cover anything I want to do)
Last thing, if you are looking at extraordinary cabs, check out Duke's Audiokenisis and the Thunderchilds.
Happy hunting!
One day about three or four years ago, I went over to a GTG at 4Mal's house. We put all our 15" cabs out in a row, hooked up a Eden WT 800, selected a bass and a victim to play it. Same guy, same bass, same amp, we just moved the speaker cable from cab to cab at random. The clear and uncontested winner? A fEarful 12/6, hidden behind the big cabs. Damn it! Proven by the blind test.
So, I started building a 15/6/1. (because bigger is better, right!) When I finished, I did some more testing. Out went the TL-606's, the Epifani 12, the 2-15 cab with EV's.
Now, this was back before the evil empire of the east cornered the market in neodymium, and prices on the 3015LF almost doubled. My 3015LF cost me $150, the 18 sound mid driver cost another $120, $40 for the horn and lens, and about a hundred more for the crossover parts. All in, I had about $600 in materials and my labor. I'm a carpenter by trade, so building cabs is like R&R for me. I'm pretty content out in the shop with the stereo cranked up. So far, I've built three, a pair of 15/6/1's and a 12/6 cube. If I ever finish my kitchen remodel, my wife will let me build cabs again, next up: another 12/6 cube.
The lows and the clarity were unmatched. And that's what I was really after. I'd been hearing my various cabs start rolling off on both volume and punch below G on the E string. Now I've got these five string Dingwalls and the cabs are just not doing them justice. Hooking up the first fEarful was like getting new everything. I could now hear what my GK was capable of putting out, what my basses could do.
Of course the DIY guys are over the moon about fEarfuls. No more guessing, and trying things out, flying by the seat of your pants. But look how many guys heard what was going on and figured out how to get one built even if they couldn't DIY. Now you have authorized builders and one stop shopping for the DIY crowd.
Greenboy put the designs out there for anyone to use, built up a Greenboy forum, and got the whole thing going. Very cool. There is even a fEarful locator map. I'd suggest that the OP and his buddy find a cab to check out in their area. If you are near Portland, OR, shoot me a PM. I'll get you hooked up.
The used fEarfuls I've seen listed in the TB classifieds seem very reasonably priced. (I've been thinking about selling my 15/6/1's since my 12/6 cube cover anything I want to do)
Last thing, if you are looking at extraordinary cabs, check out Duke's Audiokenisis and the Thunderchilds.
Happy hunting!
Another thing to consider.... If you're patient, I've seen fearful (and fearless for that matter) cabs sell in the classifieds here for really really good prices. Like a 15/6 for less than a 153. But they go fast. You gotta be ready to pull the trigger. I was in the same boat as the OP a year or so ago and ended up building a 15/6. I've never heard a 153 but you'd have to pry my 15/6 out of my hands at this point....
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,613
- 76
- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
What is best for me is possibly not best for you. Thus you can only find what you like by listening, playing, buying, trying, and possibly selling—all in a loop, the exit condition for which is set by your own variable needs, tastes, and resources. Welcome to Talkbass.
BTW, the Epifani cabs I have owned are, IMHO, amongst the best. YMMV.
I am going to try to get down to Mesa and meet up with Joseph from Greenboy.
He said he had the F115 there and I could demo it.
Maybe I can convince Raj to ride down there with me.
Maybe he can sell that old diesel powered PB201 to the GC at Peoria?
It smells like mold.
He said he had the F115 there and I could demo it.
Maybe I can convince Raj to ride down there with me.
Maybe he can sell that old diesel powered PB201 to the GC at Peoria?
It smells like mold.
Dangerous words. The motto of "try one, buy one" holds pretty well for people demoing greenboy's designs.
I agree with the concept that if you want max value, pay as little as possible for the brand name and pay for materials and design instead. Mesa make good cabs (especially the 610 and 410 IMHO), but they are VERY heavy and will not go as low or as clear as a Greenboy design. A Mesa PH 410 weighs almost twice as much as a fEarful 15/6 and the fEarful will go lower, sound clearer, and get pretty much as "loud" (an admittedly problematic term) if you feed it enough power. If I can carry a 50 lb box instead of one weighing almost 100, and have deeper, clearer tone....well.....that's where the term "no-brainer" comes to mind (IMHO of course 
My fEarful 12/6 is louder, deeper and clearer than my GB Shuttle 2-210 (but weighs less) and with the 12 sub is faaar louder, lower and clearer down low than the Shuttle 2 210/112 stack.
My fEarful 12/6 is louder, deeper and clearer than my GB Shuttle 2-210 (but weighs less) and with the 12 sub is faaar louder, lower and clearer down low than the Shuttle 2 210/112 stack.
Owning both, I should probably speak up.
The Avatars (a 115 & a 210) are good cabs. Played them happily for nearly a decade. But then I got my first Greenboy (1212/6/1), and I think I've plugged them in briefly once in the 3 years since. I should sell them.
Put it this way. If someone forced me to choose between getting back every penny I ever spent on my two Greenboy cabs to give them up for only 6 months, vs taking the Avatars away permanently for $20... they'd be driving away with a cheap stack of Avatars.
The Avatars (a 115 & a 210) are good cabs. Played them happily for nearly a decade. But then I got my first Greenboy (1212/6/1), and I think I've plugged them in briefly once in the 3 years since. I should sell them.
Put it this way. If someone forced me to choose between getting back every penny I ever spent on my two Greenboy cabs to give them up for only 6 months, vs taking the Avatars away permanently for $20... they'd be driving away with a cheap stack of Avatars.
I suckered my neighbor into dragging the 2-15 away. $100 and I would have gone lower if he had hesitated even a little.
Last time I drag that thing up a set stairs!
Last time I drag that thing up a set stairs!
Hesitation is an excellent tool too many people don't use.
A few years ago I bought a VW that needed a bit of work. The guy was asking 2500 for the car. I took it for a drive and stopped by the local VW dealer and talked to a guy in the service department to find out how much they would charge for the repairs. I went back and was prepared to offer 1800 for the car, but when I told him I had stopped at the dealers service department he interrupted saying he needed $700 for the car and I accepted his price. He was happy and I was VERY happy so all was good. I didn't have the heart to tell him he just lost $1100 by not letting me finish talking.
A few years ago I bought a VW that needed a bit of work. The guy was asking 2500 for the car. I took it for a drive and stopped by the local VW dealer and talked to a guy in the service department to find out how much they would charge for the repairs. I went back and was prepared to offer 1800 for the car, but when I told him I had stopped at the dealers service department he interrupted saying he needed $700 for the car and I accepted his price. He was happy and I was VERY happy so all was good. I didn't have the heart to tell him he just lost $1100 by not letting me finish talking.
Hands down, you cannot beat Greenboy's designs. There's not much to add that hasn't already been many times over in this thread and others, but I'll say this:
My dual Fearful 15/6/1s make other rigs sound like they have a blanket thrown over them.
Lonnybass
My dual Fearful 15/6/1s make other rigs sound like they have a blanket thrown over them.
Lonnybass
When I started playing bass about 10 years ago, I went thru a search of alot of cabs and spent a ton of money, buying/selling/paying for shipping. I was looking for my ideal combination of tone, portability, and lightweight. Once I had a taste for fEARfuls my GAS was over. As the saying goes...
Man, it's like an old boy fEarful reunion here. I loved the building part, when we were all feeling our way along with sourcing crossover parts and taking on tasks we weren't quite comfortable with. Back then, I think I spent as much on shipping for the three sources I used for crossover parts, as I did for the parts. Speaker hardware has it all in one place, parts or assembled boards. Plus the precut, pre-biscuited flat packs.
I've still got the crossover pictures Burningskies sent me tacked up over my work bench. One of the best things Talkbass has brought my way.
Greenboy did us a solid, and as usual here on TB, no good deed goes unpunished.
I did a gig with my 15/6/1 paired with the 12/6 cube and a stupid loud guitard. Things got out of hand towards the end, and I got to experience eye blurring low notes out of that rig. I gave up on that band.
I've still got the crossover pictures Burningskies sent me tacked up over my work bench. One of the best things Talkbass has brought my way.
Greenboy did us a solid, and as usual here on TB, no good deed goes unpunished.
I did a gig with my 15/6/1 paired with the 12/6 cube and a stupid loud guitard. Things got out of hand towards the end, and I got to experience eye blurring low notes out of that rig. I gave up on that band.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,348
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Yep. My crossover is previous to the established design (and thus the LPF in my 15sub is slightly different to match as well). The real shocker was the cost of shipping from places like Erse for the electronics. I also sourced multiple types of corners and stuff just to see what I liked best. I partially did my 15sub to use up the spares. Also, the 3015LF was 130 bucks and the 18 sound mids were less.
I dig my Avatar TB-153 and get great compliments on the tones i get from it. It is killer for the money. Get the 4 ohm.
